The Importance of Mentorship featuring Toddi Norum, Cyndi Nagel, and Nick Floro

Luis Malbas  
Hello, everybody, welcome to the Training, Learning and Development Community. Thanks for joining us this morning. We have a nice group of registrants already here. Thanks so much for jumping in. This is kind of a community discussion.

TLDCast, I didn't list it as one, but I think that it is, it's sort of last minute where I was able to gather some fantastic guests, which are in right now. We've got toddy Norham, Nick Floros. Cindy Nagel, I've got Alan, I know that we want to get in at some point in the audience to all in to talk about their experiences as mentors. So let me mention a couple things. First off, I've got some polls, if folks in the audience want to check out those polls and, and, and, and participate in those would love to share the results to everybody at some point during this broadcast. And also, there is an ask a question area at the bottom of the screen. If you take a look down there, many of you are familiar with that area. But if you want to post a question in there, that we can throw out to our guests and even to our audience, please feel free to to add that there. I know best he's already put one in. So we'll try to to cover those as well. And so let's start out here first with let me do some. I'm going to let my guests do like some quick introductions for themselves. So let's start with Cindy. Cindy, why don't you go ahead and and and introduce yourself. I know you've you're a great year supporting CLDC member. I just love having you as part of the community. But go ahead.

Cyndi Nagel  
Good morning. I am Cindy Nagel. I am joining from Southern California. I'm a training development manager for a consumer electronics company. I've been in lnd for a long, long time, took a break from being on LMD in in retail for a significant amount of time, took a break to just doing product training and sales training and then transitioned about a year ago back into the people side and leadership development and employee development in my company. Love it. Thank

Luis Malbas  
you, Cindy. Thanks so much. Toddi. Go ahead go for it.

Toddi Norum  
Hello Toddi Norum, I think you've probably all heard my story. But I got into training, working with the military actually training, DOD robotics to the army, which was a lot of fun. I've kind of stayed in that DOD space. And I actually know, work for a company in that same space, managing the training for about 100 people across the company. There, most of them are virtual instructor led training sessions, we run like one a week. So it's a lot of work. But it's a whole lot of fun. I think I'm having more fun right now than I've had in a long time.

Luis Malbas  
So Oh, that's great. That's great to hear. Tony, that's great to hear. Um, and Nick fluoro, who? I know I say it every time he comes on a broadcast. I've known Nick for years and years in the industry. So Nick, go ahead.

Nick Floro  
I like to play. I mostly get involved in helping people understand the technology. And where I have most fun is in designing experiences or apps for learning.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, and SEO works interactive. Everyone should get to know Nick and Nick is a regular at the major conferences and events and definitely has the most impressive, like, work desk sort of setup that I have ever seen. So yeah, so connect with Nick, if, if you can, because he's definitely someone you should know. Alright, so let's kind of start out with this. I wanted to begin with the group of you talking about when I invited you, it seems like everyone sort of had a little bit of a story about mentorship and why they wanted to why they wanted to participate in this particular TLD cast. So I'm Nick, why don't we start with you, I'd love to hear a little bit of why what why mentorship is important to you why you wanted to be here today.

Nick Floro  
Um, I think it's such a great thing to connect. mom was a teacher and when I was in my teens, I got adopted or mentored by a really close friend now who started working with me when I was 15. It kind of opened the doors to technology and learning and playing and how to communicate and work with different people but it was such a amazing experience that I try to apply that to any teammate group I get to work with to try to share and grow and I thought it was really helpful.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, so I mean, was that mentor that you had was that somebody that was specifically influenced your career in learning and development or was it just kind of as a as just a partner in life type of situation.

Nick Floro  
It was my my so my first meaningful job but it was working With a apple value added reseller, they were called back then just seeing that company grow, and I had an opportunity that 1718 to fly around the country teaching and working with different kinds of people to use technology to at that time, we were looking at prints and video. So it just kind of slipped me into learning, which was really cool.

Luis Malbas  
Love it. Excellent. Excellent. Okay, Cindy, how about you? Um, I know you had given me a little bit of a story in your in your message. And I'd love to love it if you could share that.

Cyndi Nagel  
Yeah, in terms of being a mentee, early in my career, I definitely had that opportunity. I fell into training by accident, I was in retail operations, finishing college studying psychology on a completely different career track. But, you know, really enjoyed retail really enjoyed sporting goods and or selling toys. So initially, I became a trainer, a facilitator. And so the early mentees, for me, were teaching me how to be a better facilitator in front of groups and things like that. So throughout the career, my career, I've sought mentees, you know, for different parts of the job. So if I had a challenge, and in in a particular area, I would have sought out, you know, building out a Personal Learning Network PLN, right. So in my early days, it was really relying on my twitter communities to you know, learn chat and chat to like, build up a network of people to learn from and share ideas. In terms of being a mentor, I'm currently involved in a mentorship program with our on campus, high schools, our corporate office hosts a early college high school campus, the students at this high school, when they finish high school, when they graduate, they will also have earned a bachelor's degree at the same time. So we are involved very various people in the company are involved in actually mentoring some of the students throughout the year. And that will turn into projects for the for the spring semester, here pretty soon, so and then I'm also mentoring another employee in the organization, I'm a team of one at my company. And that's been a challenge, because we have four brands. So building sales training modules, elearning. For those four brands, you know, I have very limited time, it's a lot of work. So I had identified early on a key person on the team that had the, what I believed or the aptitude and the skills to transition into ID. And she just got offered her opportunity to do exactly that for one of our brands that's divesting off, so it's pretty exciting to see her progression.

Luis Malbas  
Oh, it's good to hear that good to hear that. What kind of background did she have?

Cyndi Nagel  
Well, she's she was a salesperson for a long time. And like Nick traveling around doing workshops in stores, teaching people about the product. She is a photographer and a videographer before that as like a tinkerer hobbyist, so she has the video editing skills, she has the eye for designing something that looks good. And you know, she was an easy transition because she's so passionate about helping people learn whatever topic she's teaching that it just it made sense for her so so it's exciting to see that coming coming to life for her she she decided to get a college, some college education that she's going to school in Texas for an instructional design. And she probably wouldn't have done that had I not kind of pushed her that way. So you know, I've been helping her throughout that that experience. And you know, she's she's just a couple of weeks away from from starting her first true REAL ID job, which is

Luis Malbas  
congratulations. That sounds like a successful situation. All right. Tati. How about you?

Toddi Norum  
Um, yeah, so I mean, I would not be in this career, if it wasn't for a mentor. There's just it wouldn't have happened. I worked with a company where I was in the technical writing field, and I did a lot of boring documentation. And I had the opportunity to join the training team. And I said, Yes, because it sounds like a great opportunity. Immediately, one of my coworkers basically stepped in to mentor me. And actually she handed me a couple of books on instructional design. One was rapid instructional design. I think I've referred that book to a couple people in this this zone is an older book, but it's a really good one. And she started to teach me a lot of the things about the field that I had no knowledge of, I mean, I had a lot of knowledge of, you know, audience understanding and doing assessments on you know, what everybody understood from being the check writer, but moving into the world of you know, actually being with people was a new thing, and I loved it. So, you know, I still really value her mentorship to me, you know, still, because I don't think that I would have taken this chin directory without her. So I definitely see the value in it. And I have a couple of folks that I've mentored, actually through COVID. One transitioned actually from working in higher ed, another is working actually in, you know, K through 12. Right now. And we find we have a lot of people that come in through that K through 12. Network. So I, you know, been definitely informally mentoring them, the person who transitioned from higher ed has had some really, really amazing successes, including some justice week. So it's really cool to see that happen, because I love to see people grow. That's why we're in training, right. That's why we're here. And so I, you know, my own position right now, I actually have an assistant that I just moved over a couple of weeks ago from a different department as well. And, um, she has an education background. And so I'm hoping to do some mentoring with her as well, and the addition to management because, you know, there's a difference between management and leadership, you know, what that is kind of that mentoring tool. But she has the aptitude for it as well. So I'm excited because I do a little bit of ID for my company, in addition to managing these, you know, 800 people in the, you know, one class the week, and I definitely need the help, so I'm hoping that she'll be interested enough that I can help her get ramped up. But, you know, there's just, there's nothing like that mentorship. And Nick, you actually mentioned something I think has really resonated with me over the years is to see, you know, failing businesses are like the ultimate mentorship, right. And so I feel like, that's how we should treat membership is we kind of bring that person into our arena as almost a family member, we, you know, we kind of take them with us, we introduce them to new cops concepts, we teach them, you know, how to visualize what skills they already have, and how they can be applied to a new job. You know, I mean, that might be skills that we don't traditionally think of as Id skills, like, you know, project management, or even a little bit of knowledge about about agile design, you know, and those are the things I do with people, I say, Hey, look at your skill set, let's see, figure out how we can kind of fine tune this toward what you want to do. Sound anyway, it's way too much fun. Just just

Luis Malbas  
I love it. Hey, so real quick, I just want to go over some of the poll results just to share with everybody. The first question that I had on there was, Are you currently mentoring somebody, and we had 53.8% of the audience said that, that they were so. So that's nice in this audience to see so many mentors in there. But also currently looking for a mentor 72.7 says, are looking for mentors in this audience. So I'm glad that you're here. Hopefully, that this, this conversation is going to be able to help I have some information at towards the end that I'll share with you about finding mentors that I think the TL DC going to just try to build out. And also, last question in the poll, have you participated in a mentor mentee relationship in your career? And 76%? basically said, yes, so great to hear. All right. So let me what I want to do now is there are a few questions already in the acid question are, that aren't some of the ones that I sort of pushed out? So let me start with those because I'd love to get them sort of out of the way. So to answer for the audience. So let's go with this first one from Bessie, where we're besties asking what is the best or con, what is the best or cost effective way to advertise for a mentor or mentee in an organization. And if you have any experience with that within an org, like, I myself, I know that whenever I've taken on mentees in an org, it was sort of just handed to me, you know, just like, you know, sort of the same way when I was in fifth grade at a new school. And, you know, my, my best friend, Robert Reyes, like got thrown at me to show me around the school. And you know, to this day, he's still my best friend. But I know in an organization I remember, like crystal is somebody at the eLearning Guild that I sort of mentored. And to this day, we still message each other on Slack. But um, yeah, but how about the group of you? I can

Cyndi Nagel  
take a stab at it. We actually are just going to launch our formal mentorship program. This quarter. It's coming. It's I'm actually writing all the plans for that. Now. I have mentored people in the company, most of the time, they have approached me directly with questions around what I made, they might see an eLearning module that I made, or, and they laughed, they asked me about it, they reached out and asked me about it just a few weeks ago, I had that exact situation happen. Somebody on the marketing team asked me about a training elearning that I had made around a product. And when I told her I'll be happy to share with you exactly how I made it. Let's set up some meetings. She said After a series of meetings, she had it very planned out and detailed what she wanted to know for each meeting, which is perfect. That's really what a mentee should be doing is, you know, picking a goal and just ask for help reach out to the people you see doing the work you're interested in, send an email, and you'd be surprised, you probably will get a response. As long as you take the time to be respectful of their time, look for place to you know, 30 minute meetings on their schedule. And then make sure you have some, some focus bullet points to go over the questions to ask and then let the mentee mentor help whatever way they can.

Luis Malbas  
Excellent. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing that, Cindy. Hey, Nick. So when you get into a mentor mentee relationships, how do those how does that typically start for you? If I mean, if it's something that you're currently active in, or, you know, or have experienced with?

Nick Floro  
Yeah, within our team, I mainly work with the designers, but I'm always looking for helping them to strengthen their skills, whether it's communicating with a stakeholder, or how to deliver a message, or how to avoid getting the bad design, select it. So like shifting your conversation, but I always look for opportunities to, you know, connect and figure out what they want to learn where they want to go, how do they, you know, what makes them happy or excited? And, you know, what did they hear or learn from a particular experience. So, I will drag team members into different situations that they're not used to. So a programmer might sit in on a general meeting, or vice versa, but I look to help everyone get a well rounded experience so that they understand that I'm not just on the phone talking about what to get for lunch. It's like talking about these different things. And you know, what, what are those different types of opportunities, experiences they can learn from?

Luis Malbas  
Where does the line sort of get drawn between being, say, the leader of your organization or the manager of a group and being a mentor?

Nick Floro  
I'm not me personally, because, you know, work with small teams, I don't do a I'm gonna say great job, or I think I still growing in that area, where I'll always look to teach to help someone understand why that may not be the best way to experience and I'm still honestly fumbling with how I communicate sometimes because it doesn't come across. I'm like, wow, I said that. We're using like other technology. And I'm like, whoo, that really back the script. I'm like, ooh, that didn't sound too good. So I'm still learning and growing 30 years in, and I tried to, I think, Cindy, you said to like, the ideal of the being more personal, or the family type thing where I looked operate in that space. So it's an open communication, and that everyone understands that we're all trying to learn and grow not that I'm the boss, and you gotta do what I say. Cuz I think that, yeah, there's a, there's a line there.

Luis Malbas  
I love it. So tidy that this kind of like, it sounds like that is part of what is valuable about being a mentor, is you're actually growing through these relationships as well. Write that you can share.

Toddi Norum  
Yeah, I mean, definitely. I've definitely grown my own skill sets by, you know, working with folks to mentor them in the practices of l&d. But in through that, I've learned other things, and I've learned a lot more about project management. And, you know, to your your last question, I'm actually a new manager as well. So learning the management piece of it is new for me, because I am more a native mentor. So now, I'm actually you know, project management is something I've done for a long time that people management isn't, is a new thing in terms of making sure the deliveries are met, you know, making sure that everybody that you know, is has something on tasks needs to get done in a certain time. And of course, I have that responsibility to the employee as well, you know, if they're going to deliver something on time, I need to deliver on time as well. So, you know, it's definitely a learning experience for me. And, you know, I'm actually, at this point, looking for a mentor within my company, and Amanda being my own boss, you know, someone who can mentor me on the management stuff. It's kind of exciting. And it's new and different for me, because I'm just more in that space of natively showing someone how to do it and giving them guidance on best practices. So

Luis Malbas  
that's great. I'm Cindy, I'm going to go ahead and, and give you this question from Elizabeth. That is in our QA area, how can how can I be a better mentee for my mentor?

Cyndi Nagel  
Um, well, I think it's, I think the key is being prepared, like having specific questions. You know, so I think that's, that's key because you, you want them you don't want the mentor to have to figure out what you need to know, if you're curious about a specific thing they're doing or use, you know, something you see them working on, ask them very directly about that task that you would like or skill that you would like to build. You know, so throughout the years, I've had various people come to me and say, how do you make that video? How did you, you know, and then I can show them, you know, Camtasia, and how I bring in the company's, you know, the marketing finished assets and how I can bring in the finished copy that our marketing team and pm teams have put together and build those and bridge those and maybe tweak it so that we can edit the voice depending on who the audience is to. So all those things like i They just naturally flow from whatever that mentee specific interest is. So and I think sometimes people can kind of, you know, sometimes people could kind of confuse, you have to be clear about what you want to learn. And mentorship, sometimes people think a mentor is like a lifelong, you're just going to be my life guide. And in terms of an organization, it needs to be a bit more project focused. So just so you can respect that mentors time for their their normal job, they're taking time out of their job to devote to you Happy to do it. You know, it's definitely something that in our, in our program that we're rolling out, we're going to be spending some time with the mentors explaining to them, you know, here's, here's a general amount of time, you should give people that you decide to take on as a mentee. And at the same time, we're reminding the mentees that they have responsibility to respect that time, focus on a specific skill and go from there. Because chances are those conversations will lead to another skill that you'll want to develop later. And you can set up time for that leader.

Luis Malbas  
Nice. So Nick, when you are mentoring somebody, when you have a mentee, do you? Is there any way to communicate some of these things to, you know, within that relationship of like sharing, like, you know, I want you to do this in this in this like to make this relationship successful? You know, this is how we're going to be working together? Or do you go through that at all?

Nick Floro  
I think working in a smaller scale, like Cindy just mentioned, like having that formal plan or list of questions. I think that's priceless. And I wrote it down to go into. So I'm learning to one thing that I have seen patterns like over the years, as I start to see that this really worked with this person. And this didn't work as well as here. So looking for, you know, fitting the right resource or tool, and I've developed kind of a workflow to help them grow. So we start off with some basics just to kind of see where they're at. And looking, you know, mainly in design is where I focus on but helping them to gain those skills or grow their skills that resonates and how we can tweak it.

Luis Malbas  
Right, right, right. Hey, so Todd, you, you, you, you you put put this message in chat. I think that you say I think it's also important to be clear about career goals. I tend to mentor a lot on how to move from point A to point B. Now, I do want to ask you Tati, like when you start mentoring somebody, do they know, like, do you actually have a conversation? Like, I'm going to be mentoring you now? And, you know, etc? Like, or is it? Is it something that I do? Organically grows sort of as a relationship?

Toddi Norum  
You know, I've had a lot of people reach out to me regarding mentoring and asking if I would mentor and so I actually typically do an evaluation to find out, you know, where are they at? And where do they want to go? You know, I've had a couple of teachers approached me who are moving from K through 12. And so that's where I've actually stopped. I've done an assessment with them to say, Okay, what skills do you have as a teacher, as a teacher, that can also roll into either instructional design or learning and development, you know, if you want to be a creator versus a manager, and really to look at that and figure out where their gaps might be person in particular, that I really worked on with a lot of gaps. And like I said, that that person has had some pretty cool successes actually recently built up their portfolio, what they can do on project management, which is a big deal. You know, so that's, I think that's kind of been my long view of mentoring. You know, you can also mentor somebody on on more creative processes as well. So, but I definitely do an assessment and we sit down and you know, write out strengths and whatnot and figure out you know, what that person wants?

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, so sort of piggybacking onto that. There's another question from Elizabeth here, where Elizabeth is asking what qualities what qualities are mentors looking for in a mentee? So is it like if somebody asks, If you know or initiate sort of this, this mentor relationship do you use specifically look for something in them or, you know, how do you how do you qualify them?

Toddi Norum  
Oh, in terms of a mentee, I'm really, you know, engage. So I think that's the SEC commitment. How else have thoughts on that?

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. How about you, Nick?

Nick Floro  
I don't have a formal process. But I think having an assessment or getting aligned is really critical to, you know, making sure it's successful. And it's beneficial to both sides, like I look for someone that's passionate or hungry to learn, so that I can see that they're growing and scaling or like, or just having a frank conversation with them to say that this may not be the best fit or, like going back to what are your goals? What do you want to do? Do you love what you're doing? Or do you want to be in this other area? You're looking for that right fit?

Luis Malbas  
You know, Nick, I just get the feeling that you probably mentor everybody that works with you. And you know, this sense that you're probably just are so interested in the success of any of any of your employees. But how about you, Cindy, i It seems like you have something to say on this one too?

Cyndi Nagel  
Well, I was gonna say I'm pretty open. If somebody asks for help, I'm willing to help. It's just the trainer in me, it's just the person, it's just one of my values of somebody asking for help, I will find a way to if I can't help them myself, I will lead them to somebody who can. So that's, that's always kind of been the the way I've looked at it in terms of somebody coming to help I have had times where I have been asked to take teams of people and teach them skills. And so, you know, in that case, yeah, in terms of qualifying the goals, it's definitely meeting with that team, maybe making a list of teams, they want to focus on the things they want to focus on having that group kind of vote, you know, what would you like to learn first, and that kind of sets up the priority of, you know, how to make a short video on a product, how to present better in PowerPoint, how to, you know, update the design of a PowerPoint, whatever that might be, you know, so. So that's how I've handled kind of a group. mentorship, if you will, we didn't really call it mentoring each other, it was just kind of just naturally fell into place, as this group wanted to improve their presentation skills and training skills and building building decks. And that's kind of how it evolved, we gave it a priority. And, and every, every month, we had an hour where we would, you know, focus on a skill to build. And, and that's kind of how that worked out. So and then the group would get an assignment that they could post to like a shared folder on the company drive. And, you know, that would give me a chance to give them tips on their design and, and then they would in turn, then present it later to the whole group of the little project that they worked on. So that's great things like that have worked out in my organization,

Luis Malbas  
it seems like that structure would be really, really helpful for a lot of people.

Cyndi Nagel  
Yeah, and it just kind of, you know, I didn't really have it on paper, we just kind of decided on a flow. And that's how it worked out. Great. The high school group I work with, they have a lot more structure. So the the counselors, the administrators are actually every month, they set up meetings with the mentor mentees, and they give us they give us a sheet to follow. And those things, it usually includes some kind of like small talk, get to know each other stuff. But then there's a very focused conversation we're having. One of the first conversations I had with my mentee student was around email, and how to how to be more professional and email and some of the things to be that, you know, to think about as these high school students. We're learning about writing emails and business. So that was a really fun little project.

Luis Malbas  
Nice. I love some of the some of the stuff that's getting posted in chat. I want to mention something Danny or to gone, who's a friend of Nick's as well, he had sent me a message where he wanted to participate today, but just couldn't make it he's traveling. But he said the idea of mentorship is a great one, it requires commitment from both sides of the relationship. It takes work to set goals to maintain regular conversations, it cannot just be the mentor leading the way it should be a partnership. So this requires time commitment, regular check ins to ensure the relationship is fruitful, and that it is moving forward in a positive manner. And so I sort of want to follow that up a little bit with with this question to you is I feel like mentorship within our space or just within educators is might be a little different. Like you know, saying in pharmaceutical or, you know, or sales or anything, do you guys have anything to any feedback to say on that, how it might be different like as educators

Toddi Norum  
so the waste, I mean, I, we actually have a formal mentorship program that is really for our business development teams. So you know, I run the education competency pathing piece of it, but my managers actually have a formal mentoring program where they take on the new people that are coming into the business development area, and they actually meet it very specified times, they don't usually come to me for that, because I'm more of a support person on what they do. So it's interesting to see though, it is very formal and secular, actually documented out, it's got a path and there's, you know, very specific recommendations of what they should, you know, folks should be doing and how they engage. So, cool, cool program.

Luis Malbas  
Nice. Um, I do want to ask a group of you. And, you know, typically for these for these broadcasts, I'd like to keep them close to 30 minutes, I'm going to start to wrap it up now. But um, I know, with TL DC, a lot of the activity that's been happening over this last couple of months is that I'm seeing a lot of teachers coming in looking to, to shift over to instructional design or become a learning and development professional. And it's nice to hear that, you know, like Cindy, within your organization. And I think maybe Elizabeth, you have like formal mentorship programs that are available. And and that's fantastic. But if there was somebody that was say, you know, maybe a freelance instructional designer, or somebody that was in a team of one that was looking to find mentorship opportunities, do you have any recommendations on where to go to find something like that? Like, let's start with you, toddy, any do you know of anything? Like, how would somebody find you, for instance, if they were, you know, an entry level Id just looking for somehow?

Toddi Norum  
Yeah, most of them are coming into through LinkedIn, or through events that I attend. You know, people will seek me out and say, Hey, I heard you talk or, you know, I saw you in the in the chats, and would you be interested in mentoring? LinkedIn tends to be the thing, and I do post a lot of stuff on mentorship. So I think I'd probably bring that on myself. Oh, good.

Luis Malbas  
Nice. Nick, have you ever mentored anybody? Anybody outside of your own organization? Is that something that you consider at all?

Nick Floro  
Yeah, I've had a couple opportunities. One that surprised me was from one of the main technology companies, and I'm like, why are you asking me? Like, you're this big company that has billions of dollars and like doing all these things, and that they were just looking to see, you know, how a small group operated and you know, how you did things versus the big corporation. And I thought that was really interesting. So I did it to learn what they did as well. So it was kind of a fun opportunity.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, that's great. How are you, Cindy?

Cyndi Nagel  
I've had a few people reach out actually through to DC and some of the past events, you know, I've done some of the roundtables. And you know, where I've hosted a table to answer some some questions. I had a couple of teachers that I spoke to on the Career Day event that we did. I have also, I'm in some of the Facebook groups for instructional design and learning as well, or tool or the tools. You know, there's a Camtasia page and a Captivate page, there's an articulate group. And there's plenty of people asking questions there. So some of them have reached out privately for or I will recognize that I can help that person a little bit more and offer to let them message me directly about whatever it is. They're asking about. So and then LinkedIn. Same with Tati. I've had people reach out on LinkedIn. So

Luis Malbas  
it what works as far as that introduction is or that request is concerned, and maybe what doesn't work as well. Is there anything specific that like, that really helps like within that introduction, or that of somebody making that ask?

Nick Floro  
A comfortable saying no, which I'm not too comfortable with? I love the ideal of the assessment or, you know, like, Hey, answer these questions. So we can just see if we're a match or, you know, we can connect or, you know, I can help you with your goals or your thoughts. But I think, you know, for me, that's still something I'm growing on is just how to politely say, I don't think this will be helpful, or we'll try it. But try to figure out the balance if you're especially for connecting with someone outside of your normals.

Luis Malbas  
Right. Yeah, I

Cyndi Nagel  
do. I do feel like sometimes some of the people that are transitioning into into instructional designer learning or looking for kind of a fast track. And so So again, going to the qualifying thing Totti, you know, just really want to make sure that people understand what the Job is and that they have a passion for it, you know, and so because sometimes it feels like they're just desperate to leave whatever situation they're in. And this seems like a good fit, but but they haven't really considered the true work, the project management, the people management, the theory behind learning and how people learn the the design skills that are needed, you know, the things you need to think about cognitive load, and you need to think about 20 20% of the population has a neurodiversity issue, and you need to worry about that in design. So, you know, there's there's a lot of things to consider. And I think that you, it goes back to the qualifying question, what are what are the goals? Or is the person willing to put in the work? Some of these things are things that all of us have learned over the many years that we've been in this work? And, you know, it takes time, and you need to be willing and open and have a growth mindset, to learn and explore, and to question the theories and whether they're research based and all of that? Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yes, Kim, you're absolutely right there, the expectations of creating learning and development, you know, elearning, or whatever it is, whatever role you're doing, you need to, you need to understand the real expectations, you know, it may take a year to get a program off the ground. Like, it's far more. You know,

Toddi Norum  
so yeah,

Luis Malbas  
yeah. Do you have anything? Do you have anything?

Toddi Norum  
Okay. I just think projects always take a year. But no, I would say, again, it's qualifying because I think there's kind of a, there's a myth out there that it's, this is an easy path. And I can tell you, I've never worked as hard. Honestly, as you know, I did. I didn't work this hard when I was a tech writer. You know, I had time to play with my kids. And, you know, half the time now, I barely have time to make dinner. And so but I love what I do, and I see the rewards at the end of it. So you know, it's it's a commitment for sure. So

Luis Malbas  
Wow, that's fascinating. That's great. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and just wrap it up, I think that what what I want to mention is, there is something that I'm building just because I see the demand for it, what I'm going to do is I'm going to create a couple forms, one for mentors and one for mentees. And then basically, if you're interested in finding a mentor, you can fill out, you know, that mentee form. And then if you are a mentor, looking to maybe help some, some some somebody else out, you can just add your name to that list through that form. And I'm going to do it old school, I'm just going to collect these names and see if we can make some matches that way. I haven't finished the layout and the formatting. I'm going to work on that this weekend. But it is kind of going to be very rudimentary, but I figured why not. It might just be something that'll that'll help the community and help the the new folks out there that that are looking for some guidance. And so I will message that out to everybody probably in the newsletter, maybe specific to the people that attended this, that registered for this for this particular broadcast. And so hopefully, you'll see that in a few days. And with that, I'm going to wrap it up. I'm toddy Nick, Cindy, thank you so much for jumping in Alan sorry, I didn't get you in I forgot that we only have space for for in these. I've been working in the beta one. And the beta one has like six and I totally forgot that. But um, thanks, everybody for joining us today. And don't forget next event we have exploring freelancing on February 25. That's a free one on the TL dc.com. You can register for it there. And then on March 3, and fourth, it looks like we're going to do two days for women in l&d. So that program is coming together. In fact, we're looking for speakers and stuff now. So if you have any ideas hit me up in in Slack, and yeah, that's going to be an exciting one, as well. And with that, thanks again speakers. we'll see everybody next time. Take care. Bye

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