Panel: Navigating Feminine Politeness Norms in Professional Settings

Mallori Steele  
Hello, hello. If you're here, put an emoji on or put something in the chat. Let us know where are you based? I see some emojis. Where are you guys? I am currently in Washington DC or outside of Washington DC. So go ahead and put it in the chat. North Carolina Hi Kati, Whitney, hey Whitney, Whitney, and I used to work together oh crap and went so fast. Houston, Texas, Georgia. Hey, guys. So I'm Mallory steel, and very excited to be here. Today, I am the owner of granactive Consulting. And I'm going to do a visual description of myself, I am a beautiful black woman, chocolate brown skin, I'm wearing an off the shoulder black shirt with a very boring white background, that's blurred, and glasses with some dangly green earrings, and very short hair, because I cut it all off in December, I shaved it I shaved this like I have a teeny, weeny afro. It's coming back. So that is me. I'm so happy you guys are here. I'm going to allow all of our lovely panelists to introduce themselves once I asked them a particular question. And this is a jam packed session. So I'd want to just jump in and get started. But I want to tell you guys, please add your comments in the chat. I want this to be as interactive as possible. This is a very vulnerable conversation. And I'm grateful for all of the panelists to share their perspectives and their feelings and their opinions. And so to show support, put some emojis up, show some love, share your own experiences in the chat. And of course, you can use the q&a to ask questions. So I'm gonna share my screen, there's gonna be a lot of sharing, and I'm sharing my screen, because I want to see you guys. And so I will go back and forth. But all right, so this is navigating feminine politeness and politeness norms and professional settings. And to go ahead and jump on in a great question is what are feminine politeness norms? Right? So, I want you to put it in the chat. What would you say are some feminine politeness norms, I'm going to call on Xena to read them out because I cannot see the screen and just read out some that you're seeing.

Zainab Hafiz  
Happy to. Okay. Sorry, we got sorry, in quotes saying I'm sorry, all the time. soft voice of being accommodating and agreeable, apologizing for everything, you know? Keep going out. Okay. Oh, I didn't scroll. Not refusing additional work and responsibilities. Have to smile, apologizing all the time that keeps coming up. Don't speak up too much in meetings, don't ask too many questions. Being friendly. They need to be smiling, bubbly, not have a blank or neutral face. Somebody wrote, maybe you've already said this, but quotes saying yes to everything.

Mallori Steele  
Yeah, and here's a few here. I love what it said about the blank space because I think many of us have the RBF. Right. And if you have an RBF You're not upset, there's nothing wrong. It's just that's my face. And then you're expected to smile. So that's definitely one here's here are a few. Again, these are common examples. But there's a variety. Using polite language dressing modestly be nurturing and caring, especially in the workplace to colleagues and expectation that we should be nurturing and caring is women, avoiding confrontation offering help and support even if we don't have the bandwidth and capacity to do so. Showing deference to authority. Overly respectful to authority, smile and maintain eye contact. That was a popular one. Right? So going into the first question, I'm directing this to the lovely to Mika and Tara to mica Yoko first. How have you seen feminine politeness norms and manifests in a professional setting? And what was the impact on a woman in that situation?

Tameka J Harris  
Well, hello everybody. I'm Tamika J. Harris. I am the founder of ID success design studio. I'm a pro learning design strategist. And for my visual for my visual, okay, I'm a brown girl. Okay, I'm a brown woman, black, black. Okay, um, I'm wearing a very colorful tie. up, my hair is also very short, I have on maybe some pink lipstick. And I'm just excited to be here I am your colleague and learning and development for over seven years. And I've been hanging around on LinkedIn meeting a lot of you in various spaces and just excited to be here. Getting back to the question Mallory, many of us have already described in the chat right how these feminine politeness norms manifests in the in the workplace. But I think to also, in addition to all of those things, and maybe some of the things that I'm going to describe are already mentioned, but I noticed that we downplay our achievements a lot. Which, when we do that, that gets in the way of us being able to eloquently and articulate eloquently and or articulate who we are, what we've done, how we've contributed to the workplace. There are so many other things that I could list off here. But typically, when we do that, I'll say it this way. I might have seen it played out many times in the workplace, for sure. One instance isn't coming directly to my head. But I'll tell you this, from my background, as in media and entertainment, I also am very visually aware of things when I see it on screen, so on movies or on commercials. And so we've always, we've always seen these images played out. And one show in particular that my husband and I had watched some time ago was about the LA Lakers and how they came to be. And one person that jumped out immediately in my head when having this conversation was Jerry buss, Dr. Jerry buss, who really I don't, you know, think how you want about him, I'm not here to to

tear his name down or anything like that. But I am just always aware of how he was able to like walk places do what he wanted, say what he needed, even to the banks. And that was okay. And I just look at that. And those types of examples of men, usually white men who are able to go to banks tell the bank's I need XYZ money for a crazy idea that has not even manifested yet. And they're able to give voice to what they need, why they need it when they need it, and put a demand on it. Even if they're in debt, they are able to walk past what might seem like red tape for us. So I look at these various types of examples. And I'll pause there because I really want to hear what what my other panelists has to say. But these are just some some images that come to mind and come to play when I'm thinking about this question.

Tara Rohrbach  
Great, thanks to make that was so spot on, you know. So hi, everyone. I'm Tara Rohrbach. I am a 40 just turned 47 year old female. My family jokes that I'm so white, I am transparent. But I like to balance that out with about a billion freckles. I've got glasses on today long brown hair that I'm about ready to chop off as short as Mallory's over there because I don't do long hair. And I've got a green shirt on. Oh, how have I seen polemic, feminine politeness in a professional setting. I experienced it very early on in my career, I grew up with two parents who are from Jersey City, New Jersey. So I grew up with a very direct communication style. And that is the style that I personally have myself. And so I was not aware that my personal communication style was not in line with said, feminine politeness and tell I would start getting performance reviews at the end of the year. And I would find that my colleagues were providing feedback into my performance reviews that I was too direct. I was too aggressive. I was not personable enough and literally was quite shocked when I would get this feedback because I had never sensed any of that in any of my interactions with my colleagues and I was extremely confused. And what really confused me was when I would ask questions, and find out that in order to improve it was it was up to me to adjust and become softer in my delivery, you know, take the time to really get to know the individual before you dive into, you know, the the meat of the conversation. And so all that onus was on how I would present myself to be more accepting in that box of how females should communicate. And so how did that impact me and potentially others is, one, it was extremely confusing, because we would attend communication courses where the guidance would be, you know, be direct, come with a plan, things like that. And I was really told to kind of do the opposite to step back to listen first, even in like brainstorming sessions when you should be like interjecting here and there, I was being, you know, too aggressive and interrupting folks. And so it, it really did impact me for many, many years, because I became very self conscious about how I was being perceived, and found myself for many, many years really adjusting myself and I was super uncomfortable with who I was ending up becoming. And I feel it really did impact my ability to grow as a professional, because I was spending so much time trying to adjust how I was perceived by other people than really owning who I am. And after almost 20 years in the industry, kind of over it, right? I am who I am. And I really want to put the onus on other people, if you're interacting with someone and their communication style does not jive with how you want their communication to, you know, work with you, then you look inward. And ask yourself why is that? Why is that communication style impacting me personally the way it is, and I would challenge my managers that for many, many years, and it would be well, you know, if it's not working for you, then you may need to adjust. And I'm okay with that to a certain point. But when it comes down to personality, and your natural communication style, we need to really change that conversation. So I know there's a lot to cover, so I'll stop there. No,

Mallori Steele  
no, that's great. I was gonna say I would I want for us younger, and I don't think this is going to be as difficult because the younger generation are just bolder in general. But to not take 10 years to like find our voice and to find our comfort and to find our flow, right. Because it's the same I think a lot of us like once we hit or surpass a certain age, it's like, that's when you kind of settle in that confidence. And or if even if it's not confidence, it's like this is it is what it is. This is what I'm doing and, and in your communication style. And in where you can't fake it. You can only fake it for so long. So no, I love that of just saying this is how I this is how I communicate and I can adjust. But the request of us communicating differently is typically on women versus men. So Bella and Xena so share a time when you or someone you know struggle to assert themselves in the workplace due to adherence to feminine politeness norms. And how did they overcome this challenge?

Bela Gaytan  
All right, am I at first?

Mallori Steele  
Yes, ma'am. Okay, hello, everyone. I'm

Bela Gaytan  
trying to move my windows around here because I'm always so awkward when I first get on these calls. I'm bellick I've done my pronouns are she her visual description. I am a light skinned Latino woman with short, curly blue, green turquoise ish hair, and wearing a black sleeveless dress with colorful flowers and gold jewelry. And behind me I have soothing greenwall with several plants and pieces of art. Let's see if you can toss the question up on the screen again. Pretty please.

Mallori Steele  
Absolutely. While I do that Z zine. I'm going to introduce yourself as well.

Zainab Hafiz  
Sure. Hi, everyone. My name is Dana puffins. I am a light skinned Pakistani woman, wearing a blacktop with gold rimmed glasses, red lips, and behind me is a blurred image of my apartment. I'll let you go here's the

Mallori Steele  
question. Thank you, Xena. Alright, Bella, so off to you.

Bela Gaytan  
Okay, share a time when you or someone you know struggled to assert themselves in the workplace due to adherence to feminine politeness norms, and how did they overcome this challenge? Um, this one was really tricky for me to even think about because I've never really subscribed to those politeness norms. And as such, I've had to Job hop quite often because I was too difficult. I was stubborn. I was. What's the word honoree or something like that, you know, Just being stubborn. But I want to give a situation that wasn't handled well, instead for this for this question. So in one of my previous roles, my boss was a woman and her boss. And most of the majority of the management over her were white men. And this woman was amazing. She was brilliant. She was smart, she had all kinds of credentials. And she told me in a meeting that we had one time, let's backtrack. So we had a meeting one time, and I brought up some ideas that I thought were pretty revolutionary, right? And I saw several people on the call, kind of, you know, nodding their head, and other ones, mostly men, not seeming to be on board with it. After the meeting, she wanted to meet with me, and she said, Hey, I have a piece of advice for you. And this is really going to help you go far in your career. Dumb yourself down. When you're talking to I love that too. Because like, how know when you're talking to this man, this man, this man, you know, act like you don't know, you know? And she even showed me an example, while we're in the meeting that was just like, oh, gosh, I didn't even think about that. You're right. Oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry that I even brought that up, because it's just, oh my gosh, like, you're amazing. And then I proceeded to see her continue to do this throughout my very short career at this place. And it drove drove me mad, like I could feel my blood boiling every time. And it made me think about how many women have a like a PhD. And don't go by doctor and compare that to the men that have PhD. And you will see so many of them go by doctor, but the women don't why? Like that's a freaking amazing achievement, right? But I think we just we have these feminine politeness norms that are garbage that are outdated. And if anybody came to my talk yesterday, I talked about the importance of setting healthy boundaries as a woman. And one of the things that I mentioned was the patriarchy, and how it affects the way that we're able to enter any kind of space, we're expected to be the nurturers. We're expected to be smiling. We're expected to be sweet. We're expected to be Yes, sir. I'll do that. You know, because this is a man telling us to do that. I hope I answered the question. I ramble. I am neurodivergent. So sometimes I might get I was there, but I hope that I answered it. And I definitely want to give time for others to answer this. No, thank

Mallori Steele  
you, Bella. Yeah, and I'll I'll interject, I'll keep an eye on the time, just so everybody doesn't feel like, you know, I'm rambling but you get this is awesome. I was gonna SIP quickly say I had a colleague a little bit similar that tend to to downplay themselves in a meeting. This is an incredibly smart, talented woman, that it has a range of experience in this field, in the way that she would present information. I was just so surprised in meetings because I'm like, just talk like, you know it, you know, this right? And it was kind of like, well, I have an idea, or maybe we should consider, and I was like, listen, girl, you gotta just say it. Don't dumb yourself down. But zeta. handing it to you,

Zainab Hafiz  
who thank you for that. I actually also struggle with this one, because I can only think of like times that, you know, weren't necessarily successful. I don't think we gloss over the others when when things are going well. They just going well, we don't think about about that. So I can think of a time when I worked with, I worked on a broader IT team that was responsible for implementation and then training. And it was also rooted in a culture that is very different has very strict gender roles anyway. And it was a very international group. So we were from literally all over the world. And I had trouble meeting some SMEs, they just would not meet with me. I mean, at least a handful or more meetings that were just disregarded, not rescheduled, no communication ahead of time, just goes to each time and then have to follow up. And there's always something more important because these folks were responsible for both the implementation. And then they were supposed to be my experts. So it was a really, you know, there were my work was not prioritized, of course, and I got frustrated. So I escalated through the normal channels that really didn't do anything for me. Meanwhile, we're still coming on deadlines for the client. And keep in mind, we're on the same team. So so this is really challenging, because we're all on the same team. We're all working towards the same goal. And actually, my goal is a combination of your bowl. So it's sort of like the end of the project and delivery of this project. So it was really a struggle because I was struggling to meet the experts that I needed to meet to understand how to do this work. And I raised it through the regular channels and nothing really came of it, we're still just kicking this can down the road. And then finally, I just kind of bet myself backwards, adjusted my schedule went to meet them where they were scheduled another meeting. And then they didn't show up for that. So I, you know, sent an email kind of CC folks, and I just said, this just isn't working. So the risk at this point, right, I have to raise risks for my project, I have to be able to say that this isn't working, we need to figure out how to do this. And also, I can't imagine these are the only two people in the world that know this, and it can help me do this work. So it was just very like, this isn't working, let's try a different approach. And the response I received to that email was that this is not the appropriate channel. For this discussion, please schedule a meeting to discuss. And my thought was, you would like me to schedule a meeting about why you don't show up to meetings. That was the issue. So it was a little bit frustrating to imagine. And so we have this meeting where they actually didn't show up. But the leaders showed up, their leaders showed up. And we're like, Well, these guys are busy. And it was just like, you know, you don't understand they're under all of this pressure. And this has to happen. And just go ahead and schedule another meeting will tell them to show up, and I just refused. I just said that's not working. I mean, we're hitting our heads against the wall. And this isn't working, I'd like to explore other options and getting this done. And they were like, Just do it. And it just became this situation where voice is starting to get raised. And then this man, you know, slammed this leader, our leader slammed at the table stormed out of the room stomped out. And my boss was there. My manager was there, a white man. And he just said to me, you know, his advice to me was, you know, you should try to be less emotional in these situations. And I just thought, I feel so gas. I don't even know if gasoline is the right word. But I felt so crazy making like I wasn't the one who threw a tantrum and stormed out. I will admit that I when when when things escalated, I raised my voice as well, because I need to be heard. The problem for me was I wasn't being heard. And at that point, I exhausted all the channels that I had to communicate. And so it was really frustrating. When I got that advice, I just realized very quickly that that was a huge disconnect that this was not the place for me. It just went into that note mental note of like, okay, cons, you know, you have pros and cons. And the way that I manage that was okay, I see kind of where my place is supposed to be. I'm not necessarily going to, uh, I mean, I did have to adjust slightly. But for me, it was a matter of like there has, there's an end date to this, I'm here for a reason. And it's kind of out of my hands, we'll figure it out. If it doesn't happen. I mean, I've raised I've done what I can do. And so I just kind of keep moving. And I pushed through because it was It wasn't you know, as a shorter term opportunity. It was still phenomenal for my career and I enjoyed the work day to day and the people, the other people I worked with, so I was able to work through that. But I knew I would never work for this organization again, I would never work with these people again. And I didn't

Mallori Steele  
I think that there was a collective gasp Listen to this story. I also had a similar gas reading Emily's comment that her manager calls her kiddo. Oh my gosh. I know you guys are excited off in the chat please keep it going. Yes, I want to go move on to the next question. This is going so fast. Okay, Dr. Joe, and to meet again so Joe when you jump on please introduce yourself but the question is what advice would you give to a woman trying to combat imminent politeness norms and an organization where they are strongly unspoken the Enforcer sounds very similar to where Xena worked for that period of time. And Joan over to you.

Dr Joan Reverón-Vélez  
All others My name is Joanne or I can see Dr. Join right Bella? So I've been let me introduce myself and describe myself first My pronouns are she and her. I am a petite Latina. That more dark skin or tan skin I have big eyes, short hair to my shoulders, kind of read it. And in my bag you can see a blurry image of my home office where I am here every day and I love it because I love remote jobs. So thank you for inviting me and I just want to say really quick, I just had to go and change my name and put the doctor in front of it. So thank you for letting me feel comfortable in do that, you know, because I struggle with this. I was previously working in academics and I always was called, doctor, right? But when I went to corporate and when I am in my private personal life, I don't say like, Hi, I'm Dr. Doing, because for maybe that will look like I'm bragging or making someone else feel that they're less than me. And that's not the case, right? is just an is a shilling use the word Yes, right? It is a degree, I earn it, I worked hard for it. And as many of you have your degrees, why not celebrate that, right? So in that same line of celebration, one of my advice, or my main advice will be celebrate other women. If you feel like you're in an environment that are not cheering, it's not cheering for your sisters Come on, be the voice and you do it. For example, there's a lot of opportunity for professional development outside your, your current work workplace, right. For example, in LinkedIn, we all know each other because we're in LinkedIn, right? So why not? Maybe that woman that is near you, that is silently asking for help, need just a pitch, right? To go in, develop themselves, and maybe they need tricks, or they need feminine advisors who can you know, if someone can come and say, Hey, you can do this, you have the power you are in? Uh, so that will be my advice, like, go ahead, and I beat you. Right? I just want to say something really quick, like, just a quick story. Right? When I was starting teaching, I'm a former educator now working as a learning development developer for Southwest Airlines. I, when I started, someone told me, You smile too much. So it is curious because it was one of the those things that we mentioned at the beginning that we smile a lot. But that was feminine, right? But in this case, this person was telling me you smile too much. Now, where is the line where I? Am I smiling too much. I'm just a positive person that like to spread positivity and in goodbyes, right? Why would I have to change the way I am? to please others? Right? Why cannot they say oh, she loves to smile, and that's okay. Right. So that happened to me. And I agree with Timika when she said about not talking about our success that has happened to pull any of times because I am a person that celebrate artists, others all the time. So I always think that everyone is going to celebrate me as well. And that's not the case. There's a lot of people that don't like to celebrate specially women. So we need to have a sisterhood and we need to celebrate each other. So I just want to say thank you to Bella for mentioning about the doctorate and for pushing me to like change that and put that out there.

Mallori Steele  
Yeah, everybody in the chat or who's here. If you're a doctor change your name now in your in your profile. If you went through that process I've mentioned in the chat you guys will be sick of me if I wasn't at process. Okay, I would be talking about it everywhere. I'm gonna skip this the question for Timika and address a different question to Steve to mica from perl. Perl says what the panel provide additional feedback on the southern female politeness of utilizing sturen Ma'am, I'm struggling after 50 plus years of conditioning. We see Perl Timika What's your thoughts?

Tameka J Harris  
How will we see you Perla am you Carl i There's so much to this that I really cannot even pour all of what I want to say in this moment. We might have to go to a Zoom Room like after this and I can drop a link and you connect with me or connect with me on LinkedIn girl because that is a ever going struggling why? Because there were certain norms placed impressed in us from From childhood, and I am a so let me back up. I am a black girl from Savannah, Georgia, Chatham County, okay. And while I love my southern roots, and nobody can shake those roots from my life, and I love them, I need them because they make me who I am. And there's rich history, and there's rich heritage from my makeup. I also too recognized when my makeup caused tension in the boardroom. And I was struggling as a as a woman, but also to as a black woman, and then as a southern black woman, too.

Bela Gaytan  
With people

Tameka J Harris  
who had no problem challenging me, but I just did not I struggled with my reaction I struggled with in the moment, conversation in the moment communication, I struggled with my identity. And I had to go back down to why and a lot of this, you may have to get some added support like therapy, to help you dig down deep and have these real and true conversations to help you weed out what's really going on, and what's really causing blockage with you and now and to bring our friends and who may not understand the whole southern complex. So, as we understand it, the South real quick history lesson. Most often slavery happened in the south. And so these norms, add it to feminine politeness norms, add it to pay greed, you know, protecting patriarchy, all of the all of these are subsets of blockages that women, human beings, women who I people who identify as women constantly have to climb over. Really Case in point my loving grandmother who has since gone on, always said things like when I was little children are to be seen and not heard. Or you know that there are these limiting things that come up in childhood. That when I was in my, you know, I'm leaving my 30s. So I'm a woman of I'm becoming a woman of a certain age as well. But I found myself like struggling with that because I would let my colleagues speak and say all that they needed to say and I'm listening, but I'm not responding the way that I need to as a dueled triple degreed professional, okay, I might not have a PhD yet, ladies. But girls, I have a bachelor's and I have two master's degrees, okay. So you're going to hear me you're going to hear me and whether you have a degree or not, that doesn't make you who you are. And that means nothing to your voice, right? You can be a person of experience and not have narrow degree, but you better learn how to speak up and use that voice that you have. Because let me tell you, these people out here are getting what they need to get done, and leaving you in the dust. And we don't want that this is your new sisterhood. If you needed a new community, this is it. Because we are not backing down. And we are going to say to ourselves and to each other. Ooh, we're here. And CES. I see you and No Ma'am Don't Don't all that ma'am and sir stuff. It these are things that I have to learn time and place with the surgeon the man thing because that was drilled into me from a very early age. Again, we might have to have a zoom conversation.

Mallori Steele  
That's awesome. Mica. Thank you so much in Pearl, you know, we hear you it's funny because as a California native who didn't grow up being required to say sir man, living now in Virginia, I'm like find myself saying and I'm like, I don't need I don't even speak this way. And so it's definitely a cultural conditioning thing in this space. I'm not even really fully down south, right? Being in Northern Virginia, and as someone who grew up always hearing similar to Dr. Joan, you smile too much. Why are you always smiling? Why are you smiling too much? It's a no win. So smile, if you want to smile, have RBF if you want to have RBF I'm keep joining us in the chat. Because of time I skipped, I'm skipping through like, four questions. And I'm going to jump back into like an open panel discussion. And this is just for anybody to jump in. So in your experience, what impact is the intersection of race, ethnicity and gender have on navigating feminine politeness norms in professional settings? And how do you address this intersectionality. And I'll quickly state for me personally, there's, there's this the intersection of like, I'm a woman, but then I'm a black woman, right. And so there are certain things that I feel like, I don't subscribe to it. But it's I'm presented with it often, of this is the expectation of how I should interact, how I should speak how I should perform. And not only just as a woman, but so that way I don't, you know, fall into stereotypical black woman. And I kind of typically just push that aside, I am who I am. And I'm proud of who I am. I'm grateful for who I am. But there's definitely an intersection of these three. And whoever wants to jump in, please do come off mute.

Bela Gaytan  
I would love to. This is something I feel super passionate about. For anyone that may not be able to see the screen, this is Bella speaking again. I'm just going to drop some bombs here friends. First thing that comes to mind when I think about this, the angry black woman, the submissive Arab woman, the strong white woman, the passive little Mexican woman. And those are just a few of the stereotypes that others just continually perpetuate. And it affects how they see us. And I love that Dr. Jones, you were talking about like smiling too much. I'm the same way. I'm not sitting here smiling because I'm just like, oh, I want everybody to see me happy. And because I do have resting bitchface. But I just get happy like being in a situation. I also love to laugh. And I just, I don't know, I like to have fun in life. When I'm not smiling. I do have that resting bitchface big time and I'm constantly like what's wrong with you? Right? But going back to like, intersectionality I joke that I won the Diversity Bingo. Because I am Latina. I'm queer. I'm neurodivergent I'm visually disabled, I'm physically disabled. I'm the daughter of field workers. So it's like, you know, I feel like I check off so many boxes there. But it's so interesting when you are a woman and you have these additional intersectional identities and trying to navigate the workplace, right? Because I think it's really important for people to learn about microaggressions that's one thing that really happens a lot when you have like these different intersectionalities shortening someone's name because I can't pronounce it. Right. You know, calling Zainab Z calling to mica you know, I'm just gonna call you Mica. Okay, because I can't say to mica, right? I'm referring to a person of color as being so well spoken and eloquent. How often do you hear someone say that about a white dude or a white woman? Right? We it's a microaggression. And unfortunately, a lot of people that do that they don't see it. They don't see it. They're just saying, Well, I just I just wanted to say that they have such great communication skills. But look at the way that they say it compared to someone else that they want to say has good communication skills, right?

Mallori Steele  
And I'm going to jump in and say, sorry, Bella, interrupt. Oh, no. Yeah. And at times they see it. They don't care. So sometimes I think we emphasize like, oh, you know, they just don't understand. They just don't get it like no, a lot of people they see it, they're they're living this right where it doesn't 23 If you're perpetuating these things, at this point, right, especially if you're not working in any way on other areas for yourself, then you don't care. And I'm not saying that, that any of us are perfect. We're not inside note I call Zenith z because we're actually friends. But I agree with that. But yeah,

Zainab Hafiz  
the nickname came out of people not being able, not not willing to try to say my name. Just not willing to which to me it just boggles my mind because it's it's phonetic. Essentially. It's just not it's not

Bela Gaytan  
what people can say Frappuccino that I'm pretty sure they can say most people.

Tameka J Harris  
Absolutely. And Bill I see that absolutely with people have, like with beautiful names from foreign countries, right? They're just unwilling to say these more longer names with B eautiful accent and you know all these things. So I just wanted to add that in because you're not going to nickname a person without their consent. I think that's the part is the consent.

Bela Gaytan  
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And even, you know, so I'll give an example with my last name growing up. I always said it in English because my dad did that. My dad was a migrant worker, and grew up with so much racism that it was just easier for him to try to kind of like assimilate. And once I reached a point in my adulthood, I wanted to start saying it in Spanish. So my last name is Spanish is Gaitan. And I tell people, you know, like Guy ton, and I'm like, if you can't say it, you can say Gayton, but please try to say it before result, you know, resorting to saying it in English, you know?

Mallori Steele  
No, yeah. And I'm someone who butchers names. I am very guilty. And one, I actually have like a bit of a speech impediment. So I stutter and clutter and all this stuff. Since I was a kid, and it's a struggle of me getting over one of my goals in 2023 was to speak more in spaces like this in places like this. So this is me just jumping in. But as someone who has that, like, deep rooted insecurity of like crap, I already stutter, or I color my words, or I just have trouble pronouncing things, I can pronounce it fine in my head. But the minute that it comes out, I'm just like, and I gotta know what I'm saying. So I like I refuse to like, say, Tara's full name. So I'm always like, this is Tara. This is because I know, I'm like, I think I'm gonna butcher it. And so I think it's having that grace that when people are trying, you know, they're genuinely trying, people call me malaria all the time. That's okay. Right. It's I don't have a hard name. But whenever they say malaria think it's hilarious. And so I think giving each other grace as well, but at least making an effort of trying and so here's the next one, share a personal experience of navigating feminine politeness norms in a professional setting, and how did it impact your communication interaction with others? So I will just quickly answer this for me. I embrace that I'm feminine, I enjoy being feminine. I'm also a bit of a tomboy. And I just focus on just showing up as my complete self and taking up space. And so there isn't necessarily a one, one type of experience or one particular impact, I've just learned that it's too hard to pretend I can't keep up with it. So what you get today is what you're gonna get next Tuesday, what's your like, I am who I am day in, day out. And so that has just been my core kind of value of how I move through life. And I think this has been incredibly helpful for me in navigating a variety of situations professionally, of just being myself and having an open mind of continuing to learn because Bella Bella, you sharing about, you know, some of your experiences that that I'm learning I'm literally learning listening here I'm learning listening from Timika I'm learning listening, reading the chat and so I think keeping an open space and an open mind, but also showing up at yourself and being comfortable to take up space. But one of you guys jump in.

Tameka J Harris  
I think that's the I think that was me jumping in is the example that I want to give for us because a lot of times I even find myself waiting for everyone else in politeness to say their piece and I don't jump in I don't so my challenge to myself is being first if not one of the first and even in that if not one of the first ah jumping in girl, you know I have to keep so go go for it now, because they're not going to wait. They're not going to wait for you you know, and I just have to keep teaching myself those things. Someone else jump in go ahead.

Dr Joan Reverón-Vélez  
So let me let me jump here again is doing an ER doctor join. Speaking now. I just want to point out that Mariana in the chat said something about the accent. Right? And how the accent it's it's a problem for some people or they can understand. And then Patsy mention being short. I am a petite Latina. That's how I introduce myself. I'm 411 so I'm not even five feet. I love to wear heels. I love to wear makeup. And I am gonna make noise when I walk through the hallways because of my heels. And I've been criticized for that for my heels. So for my red lipstick, or why are you wearing so much makeup? Or why? And then when I'm not wearing makeup, it is like, are you so you're so tired today? What's happening? Like, it is like, you cannot make everyone's happy, right? So that's why I do what makes me feel good. So I'm not offending anyone to be myself. So why am I? Why am I? Why do I need to change for other people? I have been looked down because I may have a strong personality at work and in prayer to this job that I have now, where I am more in the background, I used to be an administrator in the school in Thao, I had many, many, many teachers that will look at me and criticize me from top to bottom so and I needed to be strong and I needed to be I needed to be organized and many people didn't like that I was organized or that I like the things, you know, always be flexible, but by the book or like following norms and rules. And people always will say something. So in my experience, no matter how I am, like I've tried to have offense be feminine and polite and like wait for other people like to make have said and not to speak and not to make comments when maybe I know an answer. Because I don't want to feel like I'm making other people feel less. And it there's so many, so many opinions out there, that I'm this point of my life. I'm 33 years old. And I've decided to just be me. And yes, I am Dr. Jordan or the Torah yawn, and I am proud of it.

Mallori Steele  
I love that. This went way too fast, and way too short. But this was awesome. I saw somewhere in the chat, someone said, oh, we need to have a part to you like yes, I will give a quick little tip that helped me this may not be new to anyone else. But when I worked with Tara at Microsoft, she kind of trained me I was new and new to corporate. And she shared with me this concept of like a padded room where a few of us just got together and just, it was just our safe space, right. And you need that. And if you don't have that within your current org, you know, connect with people in the chat connect on LinkedIn and just say, hey, I need to, I need to just have a quick little 30 minute, Wednesday, mid week, VIP session, you know, like, especially from a professional standpoint, because people don't understand this industry, if they're not in it. And so being able to talk about somebody's being able to talk about projects, being able to talk about just whatever we're dealing with in a safe space, you know, find those people reach out, be bold, and just be comfortable. So thank you so much to our panelists. These are some ways you can connect with me. These are some ways you can book time with me, please connect on LinkedIn. I'm gonna stop sharing. I know Devin is like you guys are over time. But thank you so much. Any last words from the panel?

Tameka J Harris  
I think we all have time and space to think about these norms that we talked about and and really think about ways that you can begin to the journey to extract them from your language and from your life. And connect with me on LinkedIn.

Tara Rohrbach  
Yeah, yeah. And I think for me to make I love that you know how to remove them from our vocabulary. This is Tara, everybody. A few times I caught some of us referring to I have resting bitchface No, we don't. We have our face. It is our face. We will own our face. I am not a smiley lady. This is my face. So we also need to work with each other and support each other to remove that language because we are only giving strength to those that use it as a weapon. There's no resting bitchface here ladies, just us.

Mallori Steele  
That's so good.

Zainab Hafiz  
Protecting patriarchy. I need that. Yeah, I've grown up my whole life with this impression. The first impression people many many people from the time I was a child has come up to me and said oh, you know, when I first saw you at first my and thought you were gonna be mean, or I thought you were I didn't think you were gonna Oh, which is if you know me.

Tara Rohrbach  
I was stuck my whole life. I

Zainab Hafiz  
just wanted to add I know we didn't get to this question, but I actually did think about it around you What were successful examples, we talked a lot about unsuccessful examples or situations that we were in. And I was thinking about one of the best teams I ever worked on. And what made it amazing because it was also a very diverse team, and all the all the measures of diversity, you know, not just race and ethnicity, but also age, gender, etc. And the key things for me that really stood out and what made it an amazing place, this was actually I used to work at Kaiser Permanente, I'll call it out because it was one of the best places I've ever worked to date was that we had true diversity, I felt really included, there was, you know, there were women leaders. So there were significant numbers of women leaders, people were encouraged to show up as themselves, we were a group of trainers and trainers are wacky and silly and had all kinds of different backgrounds. And so that was celebrated and encouraged. And we were valued and respected for our results and the work that we did. And it wasn't about anything else. And so those were kind of the key things that really helped make that environment still to this day. Again, this is a 2008 2009. So I might be dating myself, but this is a long time ago. And I still look back on that time fondly and still have relationships to this day built on those on those work relationships. So those were kind of the things that made it successful and made me not think about how to show up a certain way where I could just show up and be who I was and still be celebrated and valued and respected. So just wanted to call that out.

Mallori Steele  
That's an awesome way to NZ No, thank you. Yeah. Excessive at all. Okay, are you Devon?

Devin Torres  
Yeah, um, this group has me ready to go into a work meeting and change the entire game. So thank all of you. For setting this up. I feel I feel empowered. But make sure you stick around for our next session. Now. I think you're up again. I'm talking about breaking into leadership roles. So hang on, you get more of this. Thanks, everybody.

Dr Joan Reverón-Vélez  
Thank you. Alright, Mallory. Thank you.

‍