Knowing Your Worth with Kassy LaBorie and Betty Dannewitz

Betty Dannewitz  
Hi everyone, welcome to knowing your worth with Kathy and Betty, I want to start with a quote that hopefully you read in our description. And that is that Eleanor Roosevelt said this, she said, No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. So kind of what we're gonna be talking about today is, what about you? Are you consenting to feel inferior? Do you truly know your worth, both personally and professionally? So I'm going to, I'm going to start off by by asking Cassie a question, she's going to bring in a volley back and forth, we would love to hear from you in the chat, your thoughts and feelings as we're going along? Even We'll even take emotional outbursts at this point. So if, if you're thinking something, if you're feeling something, you have something that you can relate, please, please share it. So Cassie, would you please just tell us quickly who you are? Why the heck are you? Why did you choose this topic for this conference? Like, what were your reasonings behind that?

Kassy LaBorie  
Yeah, thank you, Betty. And thank you for hosting we get we need to know who the heck you are, as well, as if we don't, but we need to come back to that as well. Thank you. My name is Cassie Laborie. And I do virtual training. I've been doing that since the late 90s. And I help people all over the world not hate being online at the end of the day, and it's I really love it. It's very fun for me. And I am very thankful to be able to connect with people all over the world and help them find ways to be successful in this very digital world that we find ourselves in today. Yeah, why did they choose this topic, Luis reached out to me and I was talking about what this conference was doing. So a because it's the TLD, Z, and all of the wonderful people that are here. So good to see all of you. And as I was looking through the different list of topics that he was interested in having a speak about today, knowing your worth was the one that gave me the most heart palpitations, it's actually doing that right now. And I wanted to say that I have never publicly done a presentation like this or admitted the things that I'm going to share today. So I'm going to pull out the Brene Brown advice on vulnerability today and be brave. Yes. It's a highly important topic. And I would say that it's like, it's the best friend that hangs around with me every moment of my life. Both in the work that I get to do and love to do, but also very much in my life to with my, my family. And my daughter, you know, there's there's a lot of that that comes up and shows up there to have a Mantra Band that says, You are enough.

Betty Dannewitz  
Yes. Yeah. You are enough. You are not too much. And that is rolling. That as we go like that one that I feel sometimes, but yes. Hi, I'm Betty Dan woods. I work for the Ken Blanchard companies. So I'm a Solutions Architect for them. You may also know me as if you ask Betty. So I have a podcast called if you ask Betty, I speak on augmented reality, virtual reality and podcasting at all of the conferences, basically, pretty much if there's a conference for learning, I'm probably there with Cassie. And and Yeah, and I've also done some research on impostor syndrome. And so, you know, this topic, I'm so glad that you chose this topic, and then texted me and was like, Hey, I chose this topic. And I was like, Hey, I should interview you. And that's just what happened. But this topic is something that's really close to me. You know, I've done some research on impostor syndrome. And impostor syndrome is really a close cousin to what we're talking about today. It's not exactly the same but but definitely related. And something that, I think that if you if you feel like you have impostor syndrome, you're gonna relate a lot. You know, knowing your worth is so critical for us as humans, in order for us to really thrive and meet our true potential. So what I thought I would do is I'd start with a fable that I've read before that helps us sort of illustrate the importance of this topic. And that the, the fable is called the priceless stone, which I think is really fun, because that's your husband's last name, just

Kassy LaBorie  
oh, you know what? Worked out. Connections today.

Betty Dannewitz  
Connection. So I'm going to read this to you. I also dropped the link in the chat so that if you'd like to reference it later, but it kind of goes like this, it says there are people who can live their whole lives with the belief that they are worth nothing, whether it's the message they receive from their parents or their friends. These people don't know how much they are worth, and what their true value is. And it makes them doubt their own skills, or even things that they deserve from the world. And I'm wondering, wondering if there's anyone listening right now, that feels that way. So if you feel that you don't know what your value is, this parable that I'm about to read shows you that each and every one of us is a priceless treasure. You just have to know where and how to find it. So here's how, here's how the fable goes. A child turned to their parent and asked what is the value of my life, instead of answering the parent place to color for stone shiny and smooth in their hand and said, Go sell the stone in the market. If someone asks you about two stones price, just raise two fingers and say nothing more. So the child went to the market where a woman saw him and asked, Hey, how much does that stone cost? I'd like to put it in my garden. The child said nothing and just raised two fingers. And the woman said, to dollars, I'll take it. The child went back and told their parent halfway that a woman at the market bought the stone for $2, the parent put a similar stone in the child's hand and told them, now I want you to go take the stone to the museum. And if someone wants to buy it, don't they word was put two fingers up. So the child went to the museum where a man in a zoo saw him he asked, How much does this stone cost, I want to add it to my rare stone collection. The child said nothing and just you got it raised two fingers. And the man said $200, I'll take it, the child was in shock. And instead of selling the stone, he just turned around and ran back to its parent to tell them that someone wants to buy the stone for $200. And the parent listened to the child and said, Now I want you to take the stone to a store that sells precious gems, show it to the store owner Don't say a word. And if he asked for a price, just raise two fingers. So the child went to the precious gem store showed the stone to the owners who then said, Where did you find that stone? That is one of the rarest stones in the world? I have to buy it off you how much are you selling it for? The child said nothing and just raised two fingers. The shop owner said No problem, I'll pay you $20,000 For that stone, the happy child didn't sell the stone. Rather, he ran back to the parent to tell them with pride that the store owner wanted to buy the stone for $20,000. The parents said child do you understand the value of your life now, it doesn't matter where you came from, what color your skin is, or even how much money you have. What matters is the place you choose to be in and who you surround yourself with. There are people who go through a whole lifetime believing they are worth only $2 When in fact if they just surrounded themselves with people who see them as otherwise, they would learn they're worth so much more within each person hides a diamond. And we choose to surround ourselves with people who see our worth and the diamond inside of us. We choose whether to pace ourselves in a marketplace, or a precious gem store. So they the parent finished by saying you to my child can choose to see others priceless value. And you also have the ability to help them see the diamond hiding inside of them will choose the people who surround you wisely. It can make all the difference in your life. I love that parable because it really not only does it help sort of understand the whole idea of self worth and how it comes from us. But it's I think it's a perfect lead into the things that we're going to talk about today. And and how we can recognize where we're at with our level of self worth, and what we can do to sort of increase that. What do you what do you think Hassey

Kassy LaBorie  
keep thinking about the quote that you opened with about how we give our consent. And at first reading I'm going What do you mean, it's my fault. And I of course go to the word fault, right? You know, as if I've already made a mistake, right? And it's just like in looking at that Wii U. It's very important to me that I start flipping the words around in the thoughts around to choice and looking at coming from a place of what's going to serve me and make me feel happy and confident in the way that I'm moving through the world. Yeah, and it's hard to find that and I think it's it's easy. For some it seems it would seem I think we all look outward and see others doing that. It's probably not as easy as we think. But I do think we all have varying levels of how we go about that. Due to Yeah, yeah. But why don't we get to our first question. So you know, I think, you know, in a lot of ways, we wanted to start with a definition of what is what does it mean to know your worth? And I think that through that fable that you have just shared. And also with our opening, we've established a definition of it. And if, if if we if you'd like buddy I'd love to hear any kind of experiences that you've ever had. Add that would demonstrate you feeling like, wow, I know my worth. Do you have any examples of when that has happened for you?

Betty Dannewitz  
Yeah, I do before. Before we get there, though I did you know, I did a little research because this is who I am. And I want to make sure that the folks on this call get get some more resources. So I'm dropping another link in the chat. That's all about sort of what is self worth? Why should I care? There's, there's lots of research and studies involved. And the thing, there's a couple things I highlighted for this, and then I'll tell you my story, Cassie, but first and foremost, self worth is defined in the dictionary. Like, guys remember the dictionary? It's like a reference document that we use to figure out what words mean, not

Kassy LaBorie  
dictionary.com? Betty? Yes,

Betty Dannewitz  
dictionary. So it's not Google. But anyways, so here's what the dictionary says. It says it's a self worth is defined as a feeling that you are a good person who deserves to be treated with respect. Now, how many of you would say that you had I'll read it one more time, you had a physical reaction to that definition, a feeling that you are a good person who deserves to be treated with respect. Wanda says a man wrote that. Yeah, she's probably not. I mean, honestly, for me, that word deserve is always triggering. Who are we? Who am I to deserve anything? But but really self worth? It's really at the core of of us, right? It's at the core of our thoughts, our feelings, our behaviors, they're all intimately tied to? Do we feel worthy? And are we do we feel valued as human beings? In fact, they've been studying this for a long time. They've been studying this since the 70s. Which Believe it or not, was not

Kassy LaBorie  
30 years ago? Yes, it was, it was only 30 years ago, 50 years now.

Betty Dannewitz  
Yeah, so. So but they've been studying this for a while. And there's a study by Covington. And Barry, that says that, you know, that there's theory is that an individual's main priority in life is to find self acceptance. And that often, self acceptance is found through achievement. So this is that performance, society that many of them grew up in, you know, in, in, in what they say they say, There's four main elements to the self worth model, your ability to do things, the effort you put into them, how you perform. And then self worth is all three of those things. So if you think about that, Cassie, let me ask you this, if you were to think about your ability, effort and performance in life, in general, in whatever task you needed to do today, how is it that that informs your self worth?

Kassy LaBorie  
That's different than the idea of a good person deserving something. Because I can start to look at it from the angle of it, for lack of better word like proof for data short, and I can start to gather some data that maybe I can begin to tell a different story to myself, which, in preparation for this, you and I were talking about gathering data, and how I actually do actively do that for myself. And

Betty Dannewitz  
tell us about some of the data that you gather. Yeah, so

Kassy LaBorie  
this is interesting. So this is kind of connected. It's a second part of the story that we were talking about. So I sort of jumped the gun a little bit. So should we jump it? Yeah. Let's jump. Alright. So you got all of us, this is the thing I want to share with you. And it's really quite uncomfortable for me to share this. Okay, here we go. getting sweaty. Have you ever been in a situation you're working and you see people on social media just makes this worse, but you just get, for lack of better use get jealous of something that somebody else is doing? They achieved, that they published that book, they're doing better in their business, in their role in their career? We all have it right. And I I have that happen a lot. And when I when I became self employed, you know, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to make my way in this space and how I'm going to differentiate and also enjoy and love the work that I do. There's other people that do it too. And so it see it and So case in point, if you all don't already know her, you should know her. She's absolutely wonderful Cindy Huggett. She's written incredible books on virtual training. And she's been a wonderful friend and a mentor to me in terms of entrepreneurship and running a business when she announced her most recent book on immersive facilitation techniques. My first reaction in full disclosure, she sent it to me to review by the way, okay, and I've left a comment on it, but my first reaction was dang it. Why didn't I write that book? Dang it. Why did she have all kinds have access to like immersive technologies I know Betty to turn to my friends who can get the clients that are asking her to do that. And I didn't have that. So that's the initial reaction, okay. And this happens all the time with all sorts of things. And what I have learned to do back to your data question is when that happens, I have learned to say, Oh, I've just received a gift in the form of jealousy. Hello. It's like an Amazon delivery. You run to the door to get in the new fancy boxes with Mrs Maisel on them.

Betty Dannewitz  
I love them.

Kassy LaBorie  
I love I love that too. So, I have learned to not react other than to My poor husband, Mr. Stone for like, maybe two, three days. And then I say, you know, what, what is it? I actively go? Why am I having this reaction? Do I wish that I'd written another book? I literally just published one in September. What is my problem? I don't like writing stuff. I like talking. What is wrong with me? And so I look at whatever that reaction is. And I go, okay, something, what can I do? I must need something in that kind of form. And how can I get that for myself? And in what way with my brand and my business? And I look at it like, Thank you, in this case, Cindy, for encouraging me. And actually guys that led to I have just today, I launched What's your virtual training superpower from my website, and it's a quiz. And in it, I've used some augmented reality that Betty helped me build. And it was inspired by, you know, dang it, Cindy did that in a different way. Did it in a totally different way. But now, you know, I can say, inspired by that. It's very by Betty inspired by those around me. And so I start collecting, like, I look at it like data, the jealousy is a data point for what might what do I need to do? And then and then I can say, Cindy, thanks for writing that book. And that was feedback I gave her when I did review. And I was like, dang it. Why didn't I write this book? Buy it right now. It's a great book. But, but but I turned it around. And I've got this cool thing that I can talk about. And, and then I'm just thankful instead. Yeah, so you do that. It's easy. But that

Betty Dannewitz  
jealousy into a gift that then returned itself and gratefulness?

Kassy LaBorie  
Yeah, yeah. And, and then I feel good about it. And then I get to be like, Oh, Cindy wrote this great book. And then when I was reading what she did, this is what I did, I'm gonna send you all the link. So you can go take your virtual training superpower quiz later on. Okay, make sure you do this.

Betty Dannewitz  
So just to circle back to sort of like, what I had originally asked is, is, you know, the idea of ability, effort and performance. So in that moment, your self worth took a little bit nosedive? Because you felt like you didn't perform? Yeah, where you would have liked to, even though you didn't even know that that was a place you could go necessarily,

Kassy LaBorie  
right. And so instead, I did. So I just chose to be curious and say, Well, what you remember you were there showing me what was in her book and what we were doing after you know, all the things, and it inspired me, various things all came into inspiring me that way. But ultimately, it turned it into the inspiration. And then what it's doing is it's taking away that that feeling of a lack of self worth, like I'm not good enough to have thought of that cool thing, but rather turning it into Wait, I thought of a cool thing, too. And there's all kinds of space in the world for all of us to be the unique.

Betty Dannewitz  
There isn't a there's an abundance. There's there is not a shortage of space for us. Yeah. Yeah. So you would ask me about, you asked me about sort of whenever I first knew and understood my self worth, and so I'm just going to tell you just a quick story. I was I worked for a financial institution for like 16 years. That's a very long time. So I went through a variety of different jobs and l&d project specialist training coordinator facilitating all of those different things. There was a time about a five year span when I spent my time running reports out of the LMS and doing pivot tables in Excel all day, every day. And at the time I worked from home This was before working from home was cool. You know I had I had small kids there were like 1000 reasons why I should just keep doing this. But if you know me, you know that eight hours in Excel is like a death sentence for me. If you guys use disk, I'm a high ID. I am 97% extroverted well sitting in front of a spreadsheet all day. I don't know how I survived it like because if I had to quit now I just I just I couldn't. And there came a point in time when they decided that we couldn't work from home anymore. And so I had to go back into the office and I was already feeling that deep disengagement in my job, and really missing people. And so they said, you have to go back into the office. I said, Okay, well, you're, you're building one in Detroit, it's only nine miles away, I can go to that one. And they were like, no, we want you to go to this other one that's 25 miles away. Granted, I had never I had nine years, I'd worked remote for nine years, I had never driven into the office, like, regularly. So I'm like, okay, so I didn't like it. I complained a lot. Nevertheless, they wanted me to go this other office. And so I did. And when I got there, and I'm not kidding you, this is not a joke. They put me in the basement, in the supplier. And if you've seen office space, you're slacking up right now. Okay. But they put I was the only person in the basement. They put it to give me a desk, but it was in the desk. I was at a desk in the supply room next to the training room. Right, Who moved my where's my red stapler? Exactly, exactly. It was, I had been thinking about updating my resume, for at least a year, I had been thinking about looking for jobs. But that moment, when I when I got there, I'm all dressed up. And I'm sitting in the basement by myself. And I'm like, this is not it, this is not worth it. And I

Kassy LaBorie  
am worth more I am worth I hate that

Betty Dannewitz  
it took me that to that space, to be able to feel that and know that and understand it. But that was a it was definitely a changer. For me, it changed things for me, I only ended up like sitting in the basement for like 90 days, because that lit a fire under me. And I updated that resume and I applied for jobs on the regular. And I ended up moving up not only in status, but dramatically in compensation. And so sometimes hitting these sort of, you know, rock bottom places with your, your knowing your worth, or not knowing it can propel you up so yeah, it's like you said, it's like, how do you take something and turn it into this is how I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get better. Yeah, you honestly, it's still a struggle for me, I still struggle, most days to really know and understand and believe my worth. But when I find that, that when I hit that sweet spot when something happens, you know, and I and I recognize it, I feel great. I feel accomplished. I feel like I could do any. Right. It feels like there's no obstacle, that's too big. But when I'm doubting it, I feel like everything is too much. I'm overwhelmed, I'm tired, I'm irritable. I feel actually feel incompetent in that. Like, I didn't think that that was a feeling until I had it. I actually feel incompetent. Like I'm incapable of what it is that I need to do. And it's awful. And it sucks, you know, the best way I can relate it is like, what do you have a child and the first time your kid gets sick, and there's nothing you can do about it. And they can't really tell you because they're a baby. And it's such a helpless feeling, right? Because as a mother, I should be able to know what's wrong with them, and how to fix it at all times. You know, which by the way, is a completely oversimplified simplified and unreachable expectation that we placed the key

Kassy LaBorie  
thing there like where does that even come from? That that's what you're supposed to do. But it is what happens.

Betty Dannewitz  
Yeah, so yeah, it feels and I'll wrap up with this. I'm sorry, I got I got it so good. You know, it feels like I've sold everyone a bill of goods that I now cannot fulfill. So it's it's very much like imposter syndrome, but it's fueled by different things.

Kassy LaBorie  
So Well, speaking of like being fueled by different things, I was trying to think about a time when I felt like I acted like I knew my worth. And I want to share with you one of the first times that that happened, because it's ironic in the way that it happened because I was very young and I was applying for one of my first corporate jobs. And there's no way that I knew my worth this came about quite by accident. So I got to feel the feeling of knowing my worth, without having done the work of actively knowing my worth. What had happened in brief, when I went to work for when I went to interview at WebEx, it was the late 90s. And they were going to hire I was interviewing for a marketing position because it was doing demos all day, when I interviewed they'd posted with the salary was on the website. And I went in knowing what that was. And they when they interviewed me they said you're too skilled for this demo marketing job. And you're also obviously a learning and development nerd. Wait, we need to send you to the training department. They are hiring for trainers and you have too many skills For us, and that was the key thing that they said to me that I held on to kind of unknowingly, okay, they sent me over to training department. And it should be noted that this was an hour commute for me at the time. There's another piece of the irony, I was gonna go work for WebEx, but it had to be in the office because it was the late 90s. And it was an hour commute from San Francisco to San Jose for me. And I didn't really want the commute, but I wanted the cool job. Sure, sent me over to training, I interviewed three different interviews I had commuted down there would be at the end of it four times, back and forth. And of course, I got the job. But when I went into HR to negotiate the salary, they offered me 10,000, less than what the marketing position had been posted for. And I was just, I couldn't believe it. Because the commute, if anyone lives in the Bay Area, you know, the one on one, it's just it was so I didn't want it. Ultimately, I just did not want the commute. And I was so bummed. And I just was so shocked and stunned. I said, You just told me over the last month that I'm too skilled for the job that you're paying, you offered me $10,000 More for. And that stood up. I was like, Thank you. No, actually, no, thank you. And I stood up and sort of walk out of the HR department. You guys were my 20s At this point, okay. And I turned around to walk out and she went, Wait, I'm sorry, come back. And she called me back. And I ended up with 15,000 More than that other job. And that is ultimately to what formed the basis for my whole career. Who knew? If I'd known any of that stuff going into it? Do you think I would have known my worth? No. But I felt afterwards the feeling of oh my gosh, that worked. I stood up for me. And what I wanted and what I believed in, it came about as a result of me feeling like how could you ever be something less than tell me that I'm more skilled than what was being paid more? Me logical sense. logic would dictate would say Spock, right?

Betty Dannewitz  
You're hoping that you'll just be so grateful that they offered you something that you'll just take it and run. And you know who you know who you are, you knew what your potential is. And you were like, No, thank you.

Kassy LaBorie  
I don't know that Betty, I really knew that. In that moment, I just knew that I was just stunned with the, with the details that I had. I ultimately, though, have just, I've retold that story many times to my friends and family. And I'm like, I can't, I can't believe I did that. And in trying to like recall that feeling and living on the other side of that now. And as I work with clients and negotiate, you know, a place that's really honest for me, and that helps me to reach into knowing my worth, is to really look at what I love to do. And back to your point on ability, what I know I am really good at doing. Because the times that I have worked in places where I'm not that good at that, that's when I get like, I don't do a good job. And then I end up getting the poor feedback, which will feed the you're not good enough. And so it's it's, it's like, really important for me to be working in a place where I know I can do a good job and to continue to build my skills in that area, and serve people honestly and authentically, because of how important it is for me to personally feel good about my place in the world. And I'm pretty protective of it at this point. You know, I am to the point where if clients want me to do something I know I'm not good at I do not claim that I can do it. Yeah, I reach out to those that I know that can do it. But I do not promise something that I cannot do.

Betty Dannewitz  
Yeah. So that kind of leads me to to ask you, where where do you find that a lack of knowing your worth shows up for you because I imagine, you know, you on occasion, like me suddenly can't remember, like you have selective amnesia, you forget that you know? And then And then, you know, how does it show up and sort of like jolt you back in? You know, and I'm saying?

Kassy LaBorie  
Do you mean like when I'm trying to get back to knowing my worth? Because, like what happens to me if I'm in a place of not knowing my worth, is I start talking too much to overcompensate. And then I start complaining about things and maybe other people rather than the abundance mentality I get real protective of No, no one else can do that. Only. I get weird. So that's when I know that I've experienced a lack of it and I've got to step back and stop reacting reevaluate. Look for the gift instead of the problem. Yeah, and

Betty Dannewitz  
I could just say, as as your friend, that is exactly what you do. Yeah. You love you. I will always take your call. I will always take your text. But usually that conversation ends with me saying you're a badass I don't know what you're worried about. Oh my goodness. Yeah, for me, it shows up in a little differently. For me it shows up in overcommitting working until I'm exhausted. increased anxiety, right? It shows me not taking care of myself. You know, I don't need to shower today, it's fine. Probably not, it's probably not fine. You know, in not stopping to exercise not getting up to, to walk around, you know, it shows up in my energy level. But the worst thing for me like is, when I feel low on knowing my worth, you know, I it keeps me from my true potential because I get nervous, or I've even had, I mean, recently, I had had like a little mini panic attack at a conference, when I was getting ready to talk about something that I have talked about 100 times. And I literally had to, I love that you laughed, because it's true. It's, it's, it's absolutely asinine, that I would have been nervous about something I could do in my sleep. But I actually literally had to go back to my room, and like, take a breath and take an anxiety nap before my speaking event. Because I was feeling like I am incompetent. I can't do this. Oh, wow. So yeah, for me, it's it kind of shows up those those different ways. We find

Kassy LaBorie  
ourselves in those positions quite a lot with the work that you and I both do. You know what I would love to do, Betty, I know that we're at about the half an hour mark Luis and this is when we like to see what is coming through in the questions because I just saw when to coming in on the chat. But are there other ones too? Should we open it up for q&a? Now? Louise? Would that be good?

Sure, I know that I do see the one we can start right there with do you see it Betty? It can be hard to continue to feel your worth when you're job searching and you're receiving all the rage, Jack shins pain, pain and suffering.

Betty Dannewitz  
I lost that though. It's it's scrolled by me trying to pull

Kassy LaBorie  
up in the chat. And so I want to talk about this all during the rejections just as a start. Because I think that is just the worst like my heart right now. It's just going out to you because the feelings there. This is happening with my daughter right now to she's looking for some things and just how personal she'll take the rejection. She's 20. So you really see it in that age group to advice. I think that we I know personally, for me, I am better at knowing my worth when I feel good about things that I am doing. And so searching for and being part of like this community being part of the to LDC, and maybe connecting with others and helping people on chosen projects, and making sure that you are doing work for yourself, or you're experiencing things in your life for yourself that feed you. And you have people around you. Because this rejection thing has, in many cases, not anything to do with you personally, and a whole lot more to do with process and just amount of people that are working and looking for new jobs. I don't know, what would you add to that, Benny?

Betty Dannewitz  
I think that's really good practical advice, I would give something a little more, I don't know, esoteric, or spiritual and just say that, you know, rejection is just redirection. And the moment you feel rejected, it's like, it's like what you did when you feel jealousy, right? Is you have to stop and say, Hold on a minute. I'm just being redirected. Now I give you full permission to sit for 24 hours and feel shitty about it. That's okay. Because we you have to feel what you feel because eventually those emotions are going to come up. Right? But after that 24 hours, get your big girl panties on. And remember that rejection is just redirection because how many times have you looked back at something or someone that rejected you? And you were like, Thank God that did not work out. And so it's it's easy at the time to take it very personally and let it affect us. Right because it's a performance issue. Like we were trying to get a yes, we got to know. We feel like we we are not enough. We didn't do the right thing. Right. Oh my god, Don, you're hysterical. I don't know if you can see her.

Kassy LaBorie  
I mean, I already loved it. Yes,

Betty Dannewitz  
we're good at it, but like, like, like, I've lost it. Dawn you totally threw me off. I lost it. It's redirection in. It's painful in the moment but it takes pain to grow. Growing is

Kassy LaBorie  
painful. And I love your point very about allow yourself to feel it Stop denying ourselves and who we are and what we need for ourselves. Yeah, I have found that if I just feel it, it actually goes away a little quicker. If I get away then I'm With

Betty Dannewitz  
it, it stays with me. It's going to be much more insistent if you just let it a feeling come in, you know, and get it and let it come in and go out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Anything else?

Luis Malbas  
I am not seeing any other questions, everyone is really just kind of agreeing and sharing their own stories that are parallel to things that you that you the both of you are mentioning. So I would just keep going. And if I have any, I'll drop them in the q&a. Sounds good.

Kassy LaBorie  
I have another example I can share with working with the client, actually, do you think I'm able to find that interesting? Of course, I think so. I mean, I don't even know sometimes I go, how did I do that was that me was that like another me that did this? In in 2020, the work that I do, I as you might imagine, was was alive really boomed. It was great. It was too much for me, actually. But in the fall of 2020, a client opportunity came to me and opportunity, they were not a client. And they really wanted to work for them. Let's just say it was a global organization, that would sound really cool to work for. I want it to be like, Yeah, I worked for them, whatever. They came to me in the fall of 2020. And they said, This is what we want you to do. And they were putting so many parameters around it that I knew that I would not be successful, they were long story short, choosing to use a technology that I knew wasn't going to be good enough for what they were asking me to teach them to do. Very limited technology. And I said to them, I'm not going to be able to help you because your problem, I can help you right now without you're hiring me, your problem is the technology. You need a different technology. And she said to me, this is the one we will use. And we have to make it good. And I'm like I and I had so much work and so many other things going on. I said I'm sorry, your problem is the technology and I cannot I'm not a magician. And so I let the opportunity go and I felt pretty bad about it. Because Aren't I supposed to be mm a consultant? Am I not supposed to be the person who says we will make anything work, and I will help you. But I knew that I couldn't make that work? For a long list of reasons. Anyway, let it go. felt kind of bad about it. Also, though, I felt relieved that I wasn't going to have to do it.

Betty Dannewitz  
Right. Yeah. Right. And that completely.

Kassy LaBorie  
Fast forward a year later, exactly a year later, in the fall again, I got another email from them. And they said, You know what, we're really struggling with that technology. We've decided to let it go. And we want to go with the one that you recommended, we should use Are you still available for us to hire you. And I worked for them. And it was amazing. And I was like, I'm so happy to hear from you. And I can't wait to help you be successful with these things moving forward. And it was awesome.

Betty Dannewitz  
That's great. That's an awesome story. And it's, you knew your worth, and you knew that you didn't want to produce work that was going to fail because of the technology. And they would come

Kassy LaBorie  
back and they would blame me they would say that you didn't do a good job. It would really be your fault. It would be totally my fault. And how many times we who work in learning and development and we trainers we get it was bad in the moment of it happening. It was the trainers fault. First. Always the designers fault later. And it's never the technology. They blame the technology, but they're still mad at me for using that technology. Right? No, oh, no,

Betty Dannewitz  
I didn't. Why didn't you tell us? We'd be like? I did. I did. Yeah, exactly. So So let me ask you what what have you done to sort of manage times when you when you're not actually recognizing your own worth? Like when you have those moments? Of of lack of self worth and understanding? What do you do?

Kassy LaBorie  
I went on a mission Betty for it was a solid two years because I got feedback when I was employed was when I was full time employed and on the leadership team at Dale Carnegie digital from 2011 to 2017. early feedback that I got from my leadership was that I was a little too humble. Because I was presenting to executives and I know the word to makes everyone that's right. But I needed they wanted me to own my subject matter expertise, they wanted me to own my skills and I was always playing it down. So I am going to tell you that I didn't disagree with them on this. So it would go something like I mean you and I could roleplay this and then I can tell you what I do about it. Let's replay it for a second because you and I talked about it like so let's pretend that you know you're gonna you're gonna do that the bad thing that the the the thing I think you shouldn't do you know what it is right? I just want to tell you, I'm so happy that I got a chance to work with you. My quizzes live today. The AR that's in it is incredible. You are helping me showcase my brand in ways that I am so thrilled about and your skills are just second to none. I can't wait to continue to work with you more in the future.

Betty Dannewitz  
Oh, it's no biggie.

Kassy LaBorie  
When it's a real Biggie,

Betty Dannewitz  
no biggie. I mean, I'm happy to help.

Kassy LaBorie  
So that was me, you did it perfectly. So that's what I would do. If people give you feedback, you're done with the class, and then you'd be like, it's no big deal. I'm so glad you loved it. And with the direct feedback from my leadership, and then just really recognizing, because you know, what would happen that what would happen later on, when when you would be talking about it, like, you know, if you keep on responding like that, with all the projects that you do, where you're overworking yourself, and you work 24/7.

Betty Dannewitz  
But then I begin to believe that, I begin to believe what I'm saying is that it's not a big deal. And I'm not a big deal. And my skills are not that cool. So, you know, why should anybody hire me? It's it's a slippery slope.

Kassy LaBorie  
And then you get mad that nobody thinks you're a big deal. And that you're working so hard, and nobody noticed. You said, getting mad about a start living, what you're doing. And so I went on this mission. For a solid, it took me forever. I'm telling you, it was like a two year thing. That what I would do instead is if somebody gave me a compliment, like I just like if I like it, let's pretend I just delivered that. Thank you, Betty. So much. What what's a better way to respond? You want me to do it the right way now? Yes, do the right way now. So Betty, I'm so happy. Thank you for all that you've given to me.

Betty Dannewitz  
Oh, I'm so glad that you're that it's working out really nice for you. What what do you feel is the most impactful part of what you've what you've

Kassy LaBorie  
received from me? Thank you for asking, I'd love to brag more about the work that you did for me and how it's going to make things look cool. So she just right there. She just not only honored what I gave her, in that compliment, honored me. But then she let me like sort of brag about why I was even given her the compliment. And so now, if you turn it around, and you look at it like that, the mission that I was on for two years was to say thank you. And all I could utter in the beginning was to say thank you for that. The data. If we go back to the data point, I was able to add on what you saw Betty do just now when I became more confident, thank you so much. You're right that in my head, I have worked really hard to be able to assist you like that. And what would help me This is internally, could you tell me what what worked for you? What was it that made the impact? Because then I started gathering specific instances. And then that felt really good. And then that person felt really good getting to talk about it. And like how did it make you feel when I started saying that? Right? We now we're just lifting each other up. And here's what else happens

Betty Dannewitz  
is when they start telling you what they liked about or what was so impactful. They are now teaching back to you what they have learned, and that is l&d at its finest. Right? So you are actually helping them to believe further that they can do what it is that you've just taught them to do. Yeah,

Kassy LaBorie  
in a way seeking your self worth at the pool. But more importantly, you're helping them. Right. And it's just this beautiful talk about abundance abundance in not knowing all of our worse.

Betty Dannewitz  
Yeah. And airlines, right. They're internalizing your value, you're internalizing your value. Like we're all agreeing that what happened was good. And we're both benefiting. And guess what, there's nothing wrong with that. Right? So that thing inside our head that says I can't say thank you because it makes me sound haughty. No, it doesn't it makes you sound grateful. Yes, it makes you sound grateful. So they'll tell that voice. I mean, she's a liar. Teller just put it because that is. The truth is it makes you sound grateful. And I love I love your thoughts around gathering the data points. Because you can then take that and use that to make yourself better. Or give yourself some grace when you need grace.

Kassy LaBorie  
Yeah, so I love that because we talk about like, when we talked about momentarily, feeling bad and feeling that feeling. How about feeling the feeling of good to and celebrating oneself as well? Absolutely.

Betty Dannewitz  
And I think Louis is about to highlight this question.

Unknown Speaker  
Got a couple of them actually. Perfect. So we'll start with this one here. Because I think it's more directly related. This was from Shannon, do you think that collecting that data helps you when you have those moments when you can't find your worth?

Betty Dannewitz  
Absolutely. Collect it. If you get it in writing, save it, reread it there that is not selfish. That's not self focused. It's actually others focused.

Kassy LaBorie  
Yeah, I actually have a OneNote page with feedback that I've gotten and sometimes I have to go read it when I'm feeling low. I'll go read that. And that it does. It's like Oh, right. I did that. That's cool. All right. I'll be alright.

Luis Malbas  
Um, yeah, I love this conversation so much. I mean, just I'm benefiting from it because when people compliment me and even talk about TL DC, I just do this stuff on nights and weekends and I know it takes work and everything but like my face turns Read when people thank me and say, oh, you know, it's really that Louis trying to do stuff,

Kassy LaBorie  
you gotta practice we're gonna make Louise practice right now, Luis, we love the T LDC in the community that you've brought together and how you're able to organize conferences like this that get a sold out audience. For being you,

Betty Dannewitz  
thank you, you're making such an impact on the industry and on people and helping us to become better humans every day.

Luis Malbas  
Oh, man, I yeah, I can't do it. I'm like,

Kassy LaBorie  
you just say thank you. Thank you. That's what I do. Start with. Thank

Betty Dannewitz  
you. And sharing that with

Kassy LaBorie  
me. Thank you for telling me.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, yeah, no. And, you know, I actually, because I play music, too. And I get people that do that as well. And I do the same thing. I've learned to say thank you there. But I haven't been able to say thank you for, you know, like in CLDC. Because it just for me, it's just, it's something I need to do. And it's just something that's become part of my life, but But thanks for making me go through that.

Luis Malbas  
Okay, we got another one for you. This one's a really good one. I like this one. Um, how do you handle it when someone else takes credit for your work?

Betty Dannewitz  
Oh, yeah. Oh, Cassie, that's this. This is a whole other session for us.

Kassy LaBorie  
Yeah, it is. What my immediate reaction just really quick is, you know, what is the whole flattery thing? And, you know, in talking about it, and like, I just I, I don't know, I thought I had an answer. And I actually don't, it's more like, Wow, maybe just trying to honor that. And I don't know, have a take the high road, buddy. What were you gonna say?

Betty Dannewitz  
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, right, but it's also abrasive. So like, I think taking credit for your work is one thing. Stealing your revenue is another. So I think that there, we'd have to sort of define it a little bit more. And ultimately, the way you react to that is the way people will remember you, not them. So you have to make sure that if we want to call it The High Road, that's fine. I would, I would give others grace as you would want to give in to you. And, you know, and if it warrants a conversation, have a have a conversation about it. If it doesn't warrant a conversation, smile and say, Well, my my work impacted people in an indirect way.

Kassy LaBorie  
Right? I mean, I have a story. I don't know how much time we have the super quick one. But I've had it happen. And it had to happen recently where a person interviewed me on a podcast. And then the way that she ended up rewriting it on her website made it look like it was all her and then she was directing all of it back to her. And I was mad about it for several months. And add to it. She has a newborn baby who's super cute. And I didn't want to be like I want to go after being a meanie when she was a new mom. There was that. But I ended up what's nice of you. I know, girls, but I ended up reaching out to her. And I said, Listen, this is really uncomfortable for me. But the way that this is happening, I need to talk to you. And we got on a call and explained it. And she felt terrible, actually. And she changed it all. And I came at it like I don't think you intended this, but this is the way that I am receiving it. And what would make me feel comfortable is if you did this, and she changed it. Yeah, so it's having another baby. It worked up.

Betty Dannewitz  
I know we're about at time, but I have it. Can we just give our last piece of advice, Louis, is that okay?

Luis Malbas  
Absolutely. Absolutely. So,

Betty Dannewitz  
Cassie, I'm gonna go first. So here's, here's what write this down, right? Grab a pen. Here's, here's what I want you to know coming out of this session, which by the way has been super fun. First of all, do not believe that inner voice. She is a liar. She will never leave you. But you need to tell her that you know what she's up to. Okay, so she's a liar. Check out the imposter. Imposter Syndrome series that I did on YouTube or anywhere you can get podcasts or you have to do a search for if you ask Betty. It's all one word. There are 25 episodes of varying lengths with all with people's whose faces and names I bet you'll recognize. So check that out. Also. And this is just directly for me get a therapist, right ask me the therapist because I have a therapist. I have had one on and off since I've been an adult. And I highly recommend I think everyone should have a therapist. Everyone needs someone to talk to you that they can be free and open with and feel not not judged. So get a therapist asked for feedback from everyone. A lot of times, especially high performers, high performers don't get a lot of feedback because they're performing really well. So what is their I need to tell them? Welp, we kind of need to know that we're doing okay sometimes. So ask for feedback. And 100% know that you are not alone. It is not just you dude who's struggling with some work. I mean, they're all here. times 10 So sorry guessing oh my gosh,

Kassy LaBorie  
no, I love all of that. And you know, look at I have I had typed my advice up guys. It's right there. You know, I know I just chatted it jealousy as a clue slash gift. I like this thing. Thank you, Luis. Thank you for letting us roleplay that with you seek the evidence as soon as you're competent enough to build a here it. Just say thank you for the first however much time you need, and then say, what was it that made you say that to me? And and be kind to yourself? Yes. We got enough going on in the world.

Betty Dannewitz  
I put mine in there too. Yeah. Nearly as neat as yours.

Kassy LaBorie  
No, I happened to be able to copy and paste because you were talking for so there you go. There you go. Thank you for doing this with me. Thanks. It was it was great. Thanks so

Betty Dannewitz  
much for having us.

Luis Malbas  
Absolutely. Cassie. Betty, thank you so much. I'm so glad that this worked out and we were able to do this session. I really appreciate your time. And with that, I'm gonna go ahead and close this session out everybody. We have the last one of of the series coming up in about 10 minutes. LAUREL Schuler from SAP concur. So hopefully we'll see you in there. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye.

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