Essential Skills for L&D Leadership with Joe Pulichino

Luis Malbas  
Live Welcome, everybody. Welcome to another TLDCast. I'm Luis Malbas with The Training, Learning, and Development Community. Thanks for being here. Let's see. I know I see Kim is out there. Danielle Krish. Thanks so much for being here. And we'll see people rolling in as, as our session moves forward. Yeah, it's been awhile. I think it's been a couple of weeks since we've had a broadcast a week Brog weekly broadcast, we had the big l&d Women in l&d event last month. And so we're back and we've got a couple more big ones that are planned. I know that next week, we've got the visual design for learning event that's coming up on Thursday and Friday. That one looks great. If you haven't checked that one out, please do. It's really the the agenda looks fantastic for it. And I can't wait to attend that one. And then I just announced yesterday that we're going to be doing one called lnd recharged, which is one that is kind of focused on some of the folks that are that are more having challenges in their career. And that one is coming up at the end of this month. Let's see. I think it's the last the last week of May. And then I am going to be I'm starting planning for the our accessible and inclusive design conference. And that one's going to be scheduled for June. So it's going to be next few weeks are going to be really busy. So but with that I'm very excited to have Joko Aquino, here today to talk about essential skills for l&d leadership, Joe has like some great courses on LinkedIn learning. And he had reached out to me to talk about this particular course that just came out. I think it was was it in March that this one was released? Yeah, yeah, it was in March of that one came out. And it looks really, really interesting. And this is the kind of stuff that's really important. I, you know, earlier this year, I went and met a couple of colleagues in Southern California to talk about launching a another live TL DC event and a live conference. And, and one of the topics that came up really was talking about lnd leadership, because it's just so important, especially in this fast moving world that we're living in. And so that's going to be a piece of of our upcoming conference. But we have Joe here today to talk to us now, I don't have like a formal bio for you, Joe. But I do want to mention, we used to work together at the eLearning Guild in the startup days, the way back when and I remember when you released the book, and it was just fantastic being able to work with you. And and you have been on to DC a few times before. And it's always just incredible stuff that you that you share with us. And so thank you so much for once again, participating and sharing with this community. And with that, Joe, I'll let you take over your own introduction. I'm just gonna hide myself from the screen and and let you take over.

Joe Pulichino  
Okay, great. Thanks, Luis. It's great to be here. I always love presenting in this forum, because you have such a great like practitioner audience. So I feel like it's a real it's a real good opportunity to, you know, dig deep into what concerns us as l&d professionals. So here we are. This this is a new course for me on LinkedIn learning essential skills for allergy leadership. We started this back last summer when we realized that very often, those of us in the l&d profession, whether we're instructional designers, or course developers or LMS, administrators don't often get an opportunity to hone those skills that really helped to elevate our contribution as leaders and whether that's leadership's of small teams or you know, on up the food chain in terms of, you know, managers and directors, etc. So we wanted to take a look at what really constitutes the essential skills that l&d Leaders need. And in today's today's presentation, I want to share with you a little bit of the content that's in the course, but also to to share with you a little bit since this is an l&d practitioner audience to share a little bit about the design of the of the training itself, design of this course. And what I'm trying to do to make it more than just a video presentation that you watch and then forget about and so some of this is a little bit around the instructional design behind how the course is working. So that's there we go. Here's our agenda today. You know, we'll we'll talk a little bit about this concept of having a seat at the table, which was the driving force around this. And then look a little bit about the, your your role and your aspirations. We'll get into what the skills are and how we figured out what the skills are that you need. And you'll see that we've divided them into two groups a core leadership skills that leaders of any stripe need. But then the specific l&d leadership skills, we'll look at a sample lesson. And this lesson has to do with the skill around creating a culture of learning. And then what are the next steps in learning journey that I'm trying to build into this experience. And I'm hoping I get some feedback in terms of some suggestions for how that might work going forward. And then, you know, we'll along the way, and at the end, we'll have some time for some q&a. So Ellen lnd, seated at the table, when we did some research on this. Okay, there we are, that we keep switching back and forth. Yes, sir. There we go. Okay. We found that there's six key contribution, you know, we always hear this, oh, I want to sit at the table, and he should have a seat at the table. What does it really mean? To have a seat at the table? How do you get it? How do you keep it? What do you do with it? Once you're in the chair there? There's empty chairs there. And when you when you're sitting down in it, what do you do? And we discovered this, like six key contributions that I want to cover? And I just asked you, what do you think just take a few minutes, a few seconds here? And think about what if you have a seat at the table, the executive table? Whatever size that table is? What are some of the key contributions you can make as an l&d leader at that table? Whatever comes to mind, think of what comes to mind? And no, I'll share with you what our research showed. See if you came up with any of these. First of all, you can align learning initiatives with strategic goals. And so in other words, your learning initiatives are not just sitting out there unconnected to what's going on in the business, you can align them with the strategic goals of the organization. You can number two, you can anticipate skills needs, because you're involved in discussions at a high level around strategy, future direction of the organization, you're able to anticipate what are the skills and the capabilities that are needed, and you can start planning and thinking about the training that's going to be required to meet those skills, you can certainly be an advocate for employee growth and development. We'll talk about that a little bit later, when we talk about creating a culture of learning. But you become the advocate for making sure that employees have an opportunity to grow and develop and we're seeing I'm sure you're seeing out there, there's much more interest, people are much more motivated, especially the younger generation of workers that that getting a chance to learn and grow is an important part of what they expect from from the companies that they're working at, you have a much better chance of measuring and demonstrating the impact and the results because you're aligning what you're doing in the learning experience in the learning programs, to actual business results and performance results. So you're much able to do much better to do that you're able to resource leverage as effectively. And in part of it is when you're at the table, and the resources are being handed out, you're there to speak up for what portion of the dollars and the resources and the headcount can be applied to learning. And then finally, you have a great opportunity to keep your leadership partners informed, innovative and adaptive around what's coming up. What comes to mind immediately is AI in every organization is talking about AI and how they're gonna use it. Well, the learning professional at the table, the learning leader at the table, has an incredible opportunity to help guide the discussion around AI. So you're Yeah, that's right. Kim saying that the fifth bill is strongly related to the first one. Absolutely, because you're showing the value of what you're doing. And when you can show value, you get rewarded with resources to get the job done. So that's a little bit about what we're trying to go for here. Now the question is, how do you learn how to contribute these things? How do you learn how to perform in a way that allows you to really maximize your contributions? So think for a minute there about what your role is in learning and development? And do you aspire to a leadership role? Do you have the skills that you need? I was wondering if you could just put in the chat. It's like how many of you are looking to become managers or directors or leaders in your organization? And do you often wonder, how do I get there? How do I develop the skills to be there? And that's what we did with this with this course. So how do we how did we do that? Well, we we sat around to decode the essential skills, what are the essential skills, and we did some market driven research Then what we found, as I said at the beginning is that there's a set of core leadership skills, and again, that any leader regardless of your discipline needs, but then there's a deeper learning and development set of specific skills that are important for l&d leaders to have the How did we figure this out? Well, we did market driven research, and we went or we went to LinkedIn. This is a LinkedIn learning course. So we wanted to leverage the research that's there. And we looked at about 150 job postings starting last summer for a few months as they came up. And we did keyword searches. What are hiring managers were organizations looking for what are the skills that are listed in their job postings, and we did an exhaustive keyword search a lot of categorization and analysis. A lot of this, you know, handcrafted, if I had known last summer what I know about AI now, I would have had a lot more help from chat GBT and doing this. But nonetheless, we did it. And we came up with a set of core leadership skills, and then l&d specific leadership skills. And here's, here's what they are. Here's what we found. This is what would hiring managers and organizations are looking for when they evaluate candidates for jobs. You can see on the left hand side there, all the different these are all the different jobs that we looked at manager of learning and development, director of training, etc, etc. Well, here they are. The core leadership skills were these seven, business acumen. In other words, knowing the knowing about the business itself, knowing the industry trends, the market dynamics, articulating how the l&d initiatives contribute to the organization's success. And so you know, you're not just being a learning and development geek if you're becoming a real student of your organization's business. So business acumen is one, communications and collaboration this came up in almost every job posting the ability to communicate effectively, and to collaborate with your peers to get things done. Strategic Thinking, responsible for setting strategy and vision to the l&d function, aligning it with organizational goals. Many, many job postings mentioned strategic thinking, project management, also the ability to get things done, get them done within the with the resources that you have, get them done on time. This was an important skill that people wanted to see budgeting and finance. A lot of us coming up through the l&d ranks aren't really familiar with how budgets work, how companies figure out how to allocate resources, and so on understanding how budgeting and finance works is another important skill, human resources and talent management.

This is both a knowledge domain and a skill set. But it's it's if you if you are going to be designing training programs for employees, it's important that you have a really good picture of what's going on in among in the human resource talent that you have, you know, what, who's who are our workers? What are their skill sets, what what do they need, what motivates them. And then finally, there was a sort of a catch all category of professional skills. job postings were indicating that they wanted people with skills that are, let's say generically, you know, understanding diversity, equity and inclusion, time management. These these types of professional development skills were that people wanted to see you developing emotional intelligence, problem solving, conflict resolution. These are all skills that are important for leadership's of all stripes. So we established his basic core leadership skills. And then we drill down further into the job postings. And we saw here were the skills that people needed for l&d, specifically, creating a culture of learning, leading learning and development organizations, the functions, designing for learning, data driven decision making and innovating for the future. Now, let's look at those a little bit more detail. Creating a culture of learning. You know, we l&d leaders have a very important role to play in creating a culture of learning. There's a lot of research that shows us that companies that have a strong culture of learning are more innovative, more likely to retain talent, more able to make sure that people are staying up to speed with with with their skills in translating the skills development into performance and business results. So as l&d leaders we have a unique role Because we understand learning, and we can help the company, establish that culture of learning because of a unique skill set, leading learning and development organizations, you know, there's a lot of ways that you can organize the learning function. And understanding how to do that. And how to allocate resources to get things done is an important skill. And that comes in with both organizing the learning function, how to how to, how to establish the roles and responsibilities of the people that are on your team, how to set up the team so that they're working with the sneeze, all of those are really important functions, as well as managing learning programs, how to make sure that learning programs are managed successfully, so that they have a good result they're stay, they stayed updated, they're sustained over time. And they they really have that that impact. And then you have designing for learnings you got to understand how to motivate learners, how to engage learners, how to design inclusive learning environments, and how to use instructional design methodologies to make sure that you're getting the work done on time, data driven decision making, how to run a needs analysis and needs assessment, and how to evaluate training results, to enable training effectiveness, and finally, innovating for the future. This is where technology also comes in. But understanding how we're going to keep up with advances not only in technology, but in learning science, so that we're always innovating and designing better programs for the future. So these were the skill sets that we that we looked at. And this once we had this down, we figured well, what's the learning journey that we want to take people on with this training that allows them to acquire and master these these skills, both the core leadership skills and the l&d specific skills. And so as you know, if you're familiar with the way LinkedIn learning works, it's basically a series of videos by the lead instructor to tell a success story, provide a lesson. And then what happens after that, and one of the things that we're trying to do and this gets into the part of the presentation here where I want to talk about how do we make the LinkedIn learning program the videotapes as impactful as we can, so that people have a real learning experience that is sustainable, and helps them really apply what they're learning to their real life work that they're doing in the job, but also that's helping them develop their skills to be learning and developing leaders. So we start out with a success story and the lesson, there's your video. In this particular course, I think I have 14 short videos, three minutes or so that give an overview of each of these skills, and followed by a knowledge check to make sure you were paying attention and to help you refresh what you've learned in the course. But then we added some new things that I haven't done in my previous LinkedIn learning courses, and ability to do a reflection and self assessment. Well, so now that you've gotten an overview of these poor leadership skills and l&d LED specific skills, how would you rank yourself as as a as in these skills, so that, you know, well, what do you need to work on? And what do you need to develop further. And then we've, since I'm just providing an overview on these skills, and there's a whole library of LinkedIn learning courses that take a deeper dive, we've we've created a way to take your assessment, your self assessment and say, You know what, I need more work on this particular topic. So I'm going to take a deeper dive by enrolling in this next LinkedIn learning course, and I'll show you how that works. And then finally, I built into the exercise files, an actual scenario challenge. It's kind of like the case study that allows you to take what you've learned, and apply it to an example of what you might find, as a learning leader, a task or a program or something that you really need to work on. And then what I'm working on now, and I'm hoping I get some input from you guys, either in the chat here or after you after the session, you connect with me on LinkedIn learning, how do I sustain this and and keep providing a forum for learners who take the course to continue and space and repeat the lessons so that they it really sticks and it really has a greater chance of being applied to their work. So here's where it gets into it. So here's how it would work. So there's a chapter on creating a culture of learning. And so there you go, I explained there's five best practices for creating a culture of learning. They're listed there on The left you have me presenting a video. And along the way, you know, the course provides some graphics. So that it's it's not just a talking head. But there's there's some, there's some notations in there. And that's the first step in the process, you see the overview, in which I explained, here's five best practices for creating a culture of learning. And the video is about three or four minutes long. And then we move on to taking a knowledge check to make sure that you were paying attention and that you can recall some of the lessons. So this would be an example of how in a culture of learning, you know, which of these is most most apropos to taking a customer's learning. So there's a knowledge check built into it. And then we deal with the assessment. So after you've done that, you've watched the video, and you've taken the assessment, you get to see okay, what are this key skills in here that you need to know l&d leaders need to know how to encourage continuous learning and growth mindset across the organization, allocate resources to enable ongoing learning opportunities, reward knowledge sharing and peer coaching, model curiosity and learning agility, secure executive commitment to support long term culture. So you're asked to step back and say, Okay, if these are the skills that you need to know how to how to do, how would you rate yourself? And what's your priority for learning more about these skills? So you asked to do the reading. And what we provided is a rubric that allows you to do your self assessment. This is often so much we don't allow for where we say, well reflect on what you already know. And think about what you need to know, where's the gap? And so we provide here, right, your skill set? Oops,

across this rubric, are you a novice? Are you an apprentice? Are you already a master? And in gives you a little bit of a guidance are like, Well, how would you rank yourself in this regard? And then what's your priority for learning? Do you have a development self development priority? Do you have an organizational priority? Or do you have a career priority, so a little bit of a guidance around how to do the self assessment related to the skills needed for creating a culture of learning, and then you can fill it out. And here is an example of saying, well, encouraging continuous learning and growth mindset. I'm kind of a novice with that. And my learning priority is a medium based on how I filled out the rubric. So this gives you an opportunity to actually assess yourself, and to know how to set up a deeper dive into this subject matter. And here is the deeper dive, we know that within the context of the skill domain of creating a culture of learning. There's two courses that I've taken, and that I recommend. One is a course called Creating a Culture of Learning by enough Holly Bryant, and another is organizational culture, a more general study of organizational culture by Sarah Kennedy. And if you take those two courses, you will learn more than what I've just provided in the overview, that should stimulate your interest in learning more. And you'll learn more that will enable you to actually do a better job with the scenario challenge. And I'll show you how that works. And to practice in your own world so that you're upgrading those skills. So you say I want to add it to my learning path and set a target completion date, I'm going to finish this in q2, for example. So it gives you a chance to create your own learning path within this whole and in the process of the course, I've recommended about 50 or let me say 42 LinkedIn learning courses that will help you develop the skill sets to be an effective l&d leader. So it's not just my course, it's a it's an it's an entree into a whole series of learning that you can assess yourself, and then go create your own personal learning plan. So here's how it might work. So here's the scenario challenge. I'll give you a chance to look at this. Read, just read through it for a second. Take a sip of water here. This is an idea of like after you've learned a lesson, here's what I asked you to try out.

Luis Malbas  
Hey, Joe, I got to ask you a question. Sure. Is this system is this process? Is this something you developed? Or is this like, is this something that is just part of LinkedIn learning?

Joe Pulichino  
Great question. So this is something I developed. LinkedIn learning has the concept of it within each course of something called Exercise Files. And when we were developing this course, my my, the guys that I was working at at LinkedIn, they said, you know, we're really not getting enough traction with the exercise files. And that's partly because we really didn't, we really weren't developing exercises, we were just sort of giving a reading list, or maybe a couple of handouts here and there that supplement the material. So what we wanted to do here is actually create exercises that would enable you to say, Okay, I've watched all the videos. Now let me try something, make it interactive and an exercise. So this is, this is kind of a new approach to, to actually stimulating activity on the part of the learner after they've watched the videos. Yeah, it's

Luis Malbas  
brilliant. Joe, it's I mean, for upskilling, just that reflection and self assessment piece, I think is, is really key. So good. Great, great. Kudos. All right, I'm gonna.

Joe Pulichino  
Well, thank you for that. And you see the way what I've, in my videos, I'm basically telling you stories of things that I've encountered along the way as an l&d leader of situations I faced and how I dealt with it, or how I learned to deal with it from not doing it well, the first time to actually solve the problem. And it demonstrates the skills that I've described in action, then I turn it over to you and give you a scenario challenge. That's a, you know, a situation that you might encounter. And I think if you read this, you'll see this is kind of a realistic challenge. And then down at the bottom here, if can you write two or three action items for each of the five best practices that will drive the process of creating a culture of learning. And then what I've done, what I do in here is I actually give a solution to the scenario challenge. So if you want to do it yourself, and compare notes with me, you can do it, if you want to just skip ahead and see how I've solved the problem. This also can be used as a, you know, you can take the scenario challenge back to your work and do it as a group exercise and see you know, how your team would respond to this. And then you can see, I hope you can read it, the you know, the here's three action items that I recommend, that you know would help you to execute on this best practice of secure executive commitment. Now, I mentioned the deeper dive courses. The other thing that you can do is once you've taken the deeper dive courses as I did, here's what I learned from the two deep dive courses that I've recommended. And I've actually applied what's in their courses to the scenario challenge. So you can see how both Sarah and Neftali would take the content from their courses and apply it to the scenario challenge that I have. So there's a way that you can actually learn how to apply what you're learning in these deeper dive courses to the scenario challenge. And hopefully, this creates a full cycle where the deeper you go into your learning, the more capable you are of applying what you're learning to a situation that you would encounter as an l&d leader. They should compensate me for showing how they, I guess that happens by getting increased enrollments to the courses. So maybe they'll help promote it that way. I appreciate that comment. So so that's kind of how it works. And what I'm trying to do next is figure out a way to continue next steps and and learning journey and someone actually put it through the LinkedIn group is a good idea in the buddy system. So because I want to get in here is like, Well, how do we, you know, from one of my courses on the ages, model, spaced repetition is a good way to learn. So these are works in progress. And I like it to be more social, you know, the LinkedIn learning experience is solitary, you're watching the videos on your own unless, and unless you have a buddy that you want to learn with, or you bring the exercises back to your team, it's not doing so I'm going to try to I'm working on publishing a newsletter, that would be a newsletter that would come out, I don't know, once a month, that would highlight issues around the learning focus in so that people have a chance to refresh with their learning. take a deeper dive, you know, have conversations with with other learning leaders, one of the other course authors said we should have a learning leaders in cars drinking coffee, like you know, mocking modeling after the Seinfeld thing, and just have conversations around things, stories from the field, you know, getting ideas from this. So these are some of the ideas that we're playing around with that will that will continue to give life to the to the courses. So, so that's kind of what we're working on, going forward. And here are my my three courses. This is the newest l&d foundations essential skills for l&d leadership. That's what I'm talking about today. My oldest course, which launched a few years ago is on brain based elearning design. And I have a course on Instructional Design Essentials models of ID History courses encapsulate a lot of what I've learned along the way in my in my career. And so what I'm trying to do now is with is through these news newsletters or the live streams, conversations to, you know, broaden my reach, and, and give people the benefit of an ongoing social learning experience, around what I present in these and to give me an opportunity to learn from everyone else about how they're applying the kinds of skills and, and, and insights and best practices that I include in the courses here. So that's where you can contact me little typo there. There's my email address, Joe at Athena learn.com. If you have any thoughts or ideas around what I'm showing you here, or additional questions, please reach out to me there. And I invite you to, to connect with me on LinkedIn, either connect are follow with me or both. If you don't have a LinkedIn learning subscription, if you connect with me on LinkedIn learning, I can give you a link to any of my courses if you're interested. So you don't have to get a subscription. And I can open those up for you. And I'm happy to do that. So with that in mind, we're in about 30 minutes. If anyone has any questions, if Luis if you have any more questions or any learners here, because

Luis Malbas  
I you know, I, this is brilliant. I'm

Unknown Speaker  
Thank you. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
I mean, it's, I especially love that sort of self assessment reflection piece. Because I feel like a lot of the content out there, especially like, places like LinkedIn learning, it just feels like it's really static. And you're like giving, you know, creating a process that is a lot more dynamic. It's like allowing people to kind of navigate these things in more of a journey format, which is it's, I think that is something that a lot of people, or a lot of people that are creating things like this are challenged by and yes, and I was gonna mention that to Laney is post that some libraries give access to your LinkedIn learning for free. So so that is something folks can can look into as well. There's no excuse. Yeah. How long did it take for you to build build this last course out, Joe?

Joe Pulichino  
Well, we started in July, in just in centering around like, what, what, cuz I wanted to do another course. And so working with my content managers like, Well, what do we really need, and we kept circling around. And so the, you know, there's really not much around how to organize a personalized learning journey journey around building leadership skills. And then we set out and did the study of the job postings. And that took probably five or six weeks. And that was an ongoing process, because we kept as you know, as the weeks went by, more postings came in, and we kept adding them to the study and building on it and, and so that was that. And then it was about three or four months of writing the scripts. For those of you the way it works at LinkedIn, the author, I write the scripts, I have an editor who helps me you know, keep it to a manageable size, and correct my word choice and whatnot. And so about three, three or four months to write all the scripts, and then you go down to their studios in Carpinteria, California, and it's about two or three days of the video shoot. And then they take over, they take the videos, and they take about six weeks, six to eight weeks to actually edit the videos and add the graphics, etc. and produce the course. And here we are in March. So it took about nine months altogether.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. Wow. Yeah, not a bad place in carpentry either. I've been over there and it's really

Joe Pulichino  
cool facility. They do a great job. Very professional. Yes. Priscilla has a has a great idea here. Yeah, have a virtual session after we've had the chance to read the newsletter. That's a great idea, Priscilla. And so that's what we're thinking of having a short newsletter, where I focus in on a particular topic. For example, how do you design for inclusive learning environments, and I bring out some of the content from the deeper dive courses. And then two weeks later, we have a session. That's the l&d leaders in a car drinking coffee part where we have a conversation about it and a discussion. So that's a great idea. Priscilla, thanks for that. And that's kind of direction we're moving.

Luis Malbas  
Kim has an interesting post there about interesting to vet that list from job posting versus what experience l&d leaders see as important.

Joe Pulichino  
That's a great idea too. And that's, that's kind of part of the content that we'd like to put in the newsletter or the live streams is like, Okay, let's get some learning development leaders who are out there. How does this jive with their real life experience? And more importantly, how do you apply those skills? You know, what are situations in which your skill at collaboration and communication, for example, really helped you work through a difficult issue with subject matter experts? Or how did you have skill at understanding the science of learning? How did that help you engage learners more deeply and create better tracking of performance and business results. So these are great ideas.

Luis Malbas  
I'm grabbing your link to your, to your LinkedIn profiles so that folks can connect with you.

Joe Pulichino  
And we put that back up there in case people don't have it. Yeah.

Luis Malbas  
And so everyone can just sort of click on that and, and go over to Joe's profile. This is brilliant, Joe,

Joe Pulichino  
thank you loose.

Luis Malbas  
This is amazing, because I mean, even from my own, from my own perspective, just it's actually inspiring me to try to take sort of the content development piece of T LDC to another level, especially with that, I love the the assessment part, because we have this community that comes together and just, you know, we build stuff and trying to help each other kind of lift each other up by the things that we're creating, but there are opportunities for, you know, to, to, to even make a bigger impact by, you know, by doing some of the things that you're doing. So it's absolutely fantastic.

Joe Pulichino  
You know, we see a lot these days about the need to personalize learning. And, you know, you can't personalize learning unless you really have a clear picture of what you need to learn. And, you know, we cover this in the brain based learning to design course, we talked about this concept of generation, and part of generation is being able to take what you already know, compare it what you need to know and analyze that get to generate the gap, the skills gap. And in, in a lot of instances, LinkedIn learning has some great certificate programs in which you have to take a series of courses, but you might not need all the courses in that certificate. So it's not really personalized to you. What we're trying to do here is give you a chance to say, of all the 42 courses that I'm recommending, which ones are the most important ones for me to personalize my learning journey, and really learn what I need to know based on my own self assessment against this rubric. So hopefully, this is something that will be a value to people and it will make their learning journey more streamlined, more personalized, and more impactful.

Luis Malbas  
Personally, I think that folks in China sign up for your course not just because you know, the skill part of it, the you know, the leadership skills, but also just your the, you know, the process, the way that you're building this thing out the structure of it. I think it's fascinating I am, I get LinkedIn learning for free since I'm a member of our local library. So sign up for this course. Because I want to experience it. So that's that's really, really great. Joe, thank you so much.

Joe Pulichino  
You're very welcome. It's great to be here. Thanks, everyone, for joining today. And for, you know, paying attention to me for 30 minutes. I really appreciate it. And I'll be happy to keep you guys posted with the newsletter, the live streams and maybe come back again in a few months and let you know how it's gone. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
definitely keep keep me posted on that. And I'll share it out to everybody. Joe, it's always great having you here. You're always generous with your knowledge. And this is absolutely fantastic. I can't wait to to share this recording with everybody. I know there's a ton of people that wanted to be here. And and this is this is kind of a game changer. I'm going to be thinking about this all day and I can't wait to get to my whiteboard and start messing around with stuff. So you've inspired me quite a bit this morning, Joe, thank you so much.

Joe Pulichino  
Thank you guys. Take care, everyone. All right, everyone.

Luis Malbas  
Have a good one. We'll see you next time.

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