Community Showcase: Vanessa Alzate

Luis Malbas  
Hello, everybody, welcome to the training learning and development community. Thank you so much for being here today. We have another member showcase here. And it's actually a pretty special one. It's funny because I, I decided to look back to sort of see when the last time we talked to Vanessa was in one of these showcases, and it's actually been like three years. And I'm pretty sure it was during the pandemic, which was, which is wild, because I went and checked out that video because I wanted to kind of remember what we were talking about back then. And that it seems like almost a lifetime ago. And especially Vanessa, like, I think that will be that was before like, I met you at DevLearn. And actually seeing you face to face and all of this and just sort of watch anchor training, really start to grow and become what it is today, which is, which has been absolutely tremendous to see you sort of rocket up and and it's so impressive. And so I'm excited to talk to you today I have a group of questions that are in the chat, I mean, in the QA area, that, that maybe we can just, you know, discuss. And we'll start out with just your journey, how you found anchor training, I think it was 2011. And what was it? Like? I know, we talked about it before, but what did you see there? Why did you think anchor training needed to exist?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, so and I'll try and 1011 it was just me, that was when I started freelancing. And so officially on paper, you know, government wise, you know, the business opened in 2018. But every time I have a conversation with anyone asked me, you know about the business and you know, the legalities of it, and like, yeah, it was 2018. So technically, that has been open for five years. All actuality, it was me, you know, seven years before that. I just didn't LLC, you know, do all of the things because I wasn't sure. You know, at that time, I was just trying to make a little bit of extra cash, I wanted to buy a house. I live in New Jersey, it is quite expensive to live here. And I wasn't making a ton of money at work. You know, my first job I made $35,000 a year. So I wasn't making enough that I could have, you know, purchased a home. And so that's when I started freelancing on the side. So I worked full time and freelance. And that went on until I would say the ball really started rolling, let's say 2015 2016 ish, maybe even a little bit earlier than that. Because I was working with one of my, you know, my first customer, and I built up their elearning department deal. I was there yesterday with them. You know, I still do a lot of work with them. And it had grown so much. It was basically a full time job, which was really fine. When you're single, no kids. But in 2016 I gave birth to Giselle, my oldest and then three months later, oops, we're pregnant again. Wow. So I had my two girls a year apart. And because actually at that customer's office, Christina, she's just become family. And I bring her Giselle, she loves little kids, and I'm got this big belly, it's the end of summer. And I looked at her and I'm like, if I went out on my own, do you think like, I'd be okay, and she's like you, you should have done this a while ago. But yeah, you you'll be fine. Wow. And I went back to work after maternity leave, because, you know, I could probably do this. I lasted a month, it was just, you know, two kids so young, you know, for all intents and purposes is, you know, to under one. I just, I needed to have that flexibility for my family. And so that's what anchor training, you know, was born in that sense. Right, you know, LLC, they did all the things properly. Yeah. And I just didn't expect him to be anything other than me. You know, they're, you know, I know, the question is, like, you know, what was the problem I was trying to solve, I was trying to find flexibility for my family. Yeah, do what I like to do, which was learning and development. And at one point, I was an office manager for a Home Remodeling Company, and then sales and marketing satellite office, and it was great. But what I realized what I was gravitating towards, like a stretch projects I would take on that would like filled with time, because I got so efficient at my job. We're all related to training or onboarding, and I just realized that was kind of really core to who I am. So yeah, I, I just it was supposed to just be me, and then I got a request from a customer, potential customer at that time, and I couldn't take them on because I My Plate was to fall. And I looked at my husband and I was like, I'm not going to do that again. So I brought on my first sub, and about six months later, that a third phase of their project, and they came back and said, we really want to work with you. And so I brought in my first team, and that's where the agency was born. And that was right before the pandemic. And that's when I realized, you know, pulling the team together and doing all of those pieces, it really made me realize how much I actually liked the business side of the agency and learning and development and for it, which I didn't, wasn't ever able to explore before. Yeah.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, that's fascinating. I actually, I don't think I've heard that just basically straight As, I mean, anchor training was basically born out of you becoming a mother that you just needed that flexibility, and especially in kind of the, the world that we we live in today, if you you know, being able to balance having a family and, and also being able to do the work that you want to do sometimes you just have to make those choices and, and build accordingly. So that is actually really, really impressive. I I love that. Um, so you offer digital media development and elearning videos. I know that I've been, I follow you on YouTube for years now. I'm just wondering, you kind of have I mean, I actually looked and I noticed that you actually hadn't posted on YouTube for a few months. I know, I don't do the the Tick Tock thing, but I know that, that that's something that you're absolutely competent at and that you build. But how do you see media and and and technology and l&d? Yes. Moving currently?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah. So I think that there's so much opportunity, the reason that I talk so much at conferences about, you know, paying attention to tick tock, and what can we learn from it is because that's how we're consuming everything. And if we can borrow some of those principles, or obviously working for marketing, to gain our attention, there's probably something there that we can learn from. And it's just coming at it from a way of, let's try something a little bit different, you know, the whole idea of stopping the squirrel doesn't just have to be to get your attention to buy something, something's a scroll could be grabbing your attention, so that you can learn something. And so I think the future truly can be video and just looking for ways to innovate for a long time, we create we thought of video as something that you had to do a whole production for, you had to get the actors and do the script. And it was expensive. Yeah, but tick tock is featuring us, it doesn't have to be that expensive. And we actually will not will pay attention to more authentic things. You know, for example, like right now I've got a camera going, because I know that my team can chop up some of these clips of what I'm talking about here, and they can repurpose it on tick tock, or they can repurpose it on YouTube shorts. And so there's some of those opportunities. So we can get those short sites of learning to then intrigue people into the longer form content to actually sit, you know, for example, here to sit and watch the entire showcase on your YouTube channel. Right. That's how I think that if we can pay attention to some of those things, and think of learning with a little bit more of a marketing mindset. You know, we talk about engaging, trying to get people into our training programs, and our you know, to sign up for elearning, and all of those things, but we're not thinking around like the marketing side. So we think that we have, there's a lot of opportunity there. And with the explosion of AI, it's also just making video even easier. You know, and I think that what we'll start to see more people go that route. I know for me, I you know, now in my role, I'm doing a lot of like writing SOPs and doing all those things for me to sit and write an SOP, I'd rather do anything else, like fold laundry, right? So if I can just turn on a camera and walk you through the SOP, I can do that really quickly. And then we can export it in a way that some tools we can export in a way so it becomes a proper SOP. So I can really see people utilizing, utilizing it in that way.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. And I think what really fascinated about you when when I first met you was sort of your innovative approach and the fact that you did have such a strong presence on YouTube. So do you mind sharing what is your current strategy now? Are you do you have a YouTube strategy? Are you just doing shorts or is your primary or we'll

Vanessa Alzate  
all Yeah, so all honesty, I got burned out from YouTube. A there was a lot of things that were happening in the business that when I went on my life was supposed to be a short break, turned into a much longer break. And I wasn't I was noticing that I was losing the passion for what I was talking about because I was focusing on you know, is this going to grab us just you know, what is the and results going to be and you know, people sharing? Is it really worth your time if it's not converting into dollars into the business and things like that? And what could you be doing with that with that time? And so, yeah, I just got I got really overwhelmed with everything that was happening in the business. Personally, Vince alive, things were going on. And I was just like, I just need to stop. But you have very good timing. I was actually at the Kirkpatrick offices. About two weeks ago now or last week, maybe. And I texted my director of marketing, and I was like, I think she's ready to go back on Camera, ready to do it, but she was like, this is probably the best day ever. Because, you know, she's really been missing the longer form video. And so the reason I've been able to stay so consistent on things like YouTube shorts or Tik Tok is because I've been able to repurpose my long form content and into the short form clips. Whereas it's harder to like string that, you know, the opposite way.

Luis Malbas  
Right? Right. It is, I mean, I just, YouTube is one of the platforms that I pay attention to the most not like, really strategically, but simply just as a viewer, because, you know, I'm somebody at, you know, music and cooking, and all of those things get like a ton of that information from there. And so, you know, knowing the, you know, that you had put so much time into your channel and how consistent you were, I always really admire that. But at the same time, you know, following influences on YouTube, you see that burnout regularly, and it is a real thing, because you were constantly watching your your, your your metrics, and wanting to make sure that you are zeroing in on the content that is going to get the most views and, and it is really, it can be super tiring. So I'm glad that you took a break. But I'm also glad that that you're going to be coming back because you have so much to offer in that world and are still like one of the primary innovators, I think that is producing video on YouTube and Tiktok. So let's talk a little bit about your consulting work. I mean, it's been you've been doing this for years now most common challenges that you see l&d teams face.

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, it's all this time, I think it's really talking about the value that we can honestly bring in a way that our stakeholders are going to understand it. What I see from the sidelines oftentimes is you know, and what I will see people post on LinkedIn, these things, they're talking, you're, we're talking one language a little too academic, maybe. And our stakeholders are speaking a different language. And we're just not, you know, it's understanding each other, right. And so the onus is really, frankly, on us to learn our customers business, even if we're an internal consultant, it's still on us to learn their business and their motivations. Just like we have a learner persona for our courses, we need to have a a persona for the people that are our stakeholders and stakeholder persona, so we can start to match what are their pain points, how is this you know, job aid, rather than the, you know, elearning going to solve the problem that they're actually looking for, you know, talking about how this can save time, and this is using blood your folks actually need and want but what we'll do is we we, we just can't, we don't have spend the time working on that first consulting skills. And so what I noticed is, um, you know, some quite a worker, so I'm looking around on LinkedIn, and all these, you know, all these places that I see people ask questions about, so she knew you're into the field, the technology and the theories and this and that, and I'm like, Y'all, that's so great to know. And I hope you do know the basics of it. I really do because I want fit, so people in this profession, but I rarely see you asking about where can I build my consulting skills. And I think that people think of consulting, as you know, sales, you know, freelancing going on your own. But what I always learned and all the different jobs that I've had is I always still had to be consultant, even when I was an internal employee. And those skills still really are quite helpful. And so I think that's where we're really struggling us for not really knowing how to talk to our stakeholders in a way that makes sense for them.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. Is that consistent like a common denominator when you're working with teams just seeing that that communication thing always

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, and I'll see you know, frustration from people. We don't have a seat at the table. Well, you're not having the conversation to get yourself to see the table you just say I want to see that the table. So if you can talk about some of the strategic plan and some of them metrics and the KPIs that they're going after and how your department can support that. Like, we all know learning is one for one going to, you know, there's all these other factors that will achieve that will impact the KPI. But learning is still very much part of that. And if you can start to have those conversations, so you get those KPIs and show a little bit of, you can talk their talk and walk their walk, you'll earn that seat at the table. Right, right champions around that table.

Luis Malbas  
Nice. Nice. Now I see Cindy and Laney and Rachel are in, you know, I'm kind of wondering if they have any feedback on that, too. If you have any feedback in chat, feel free to just jump in and and post it in there. Because I do think that that is a huge thing, and probably not something that we talk about enough on our broadcasts until DC. But I do get I occasionally have these, you know, select few that do come in and have those conversations. And they're always so poignant, because I do think that's a really, really basic thing that is, is really relevant in l&d. And so moving now to today, you are now the president and owner of Kirkpatrick partners, which is such a huge deal. And I'm sure that your entire I mean, you are probably just learning a whole lot right now. And that in particular, like being able to talk to scale stakeholders and your consulting skills are probably going through some transport.

Vanessa Alzate  
We do a lot of work in the government and military space. And so it's, I've done some work in the government space in the past, but never at this level where I'm, you know, really trying to get in and influence and talking about, you know, additional partnerships and consulting opportunities. It's just a different beast.

Luis Malbas  
So, I mean, I would love to hear the story. What led to this, how did this I mean, when I saw it, when I saw your announcement on LinkedIn, I'm like, what?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, yeah. So um, I realized, probably at some point last year, that I didn't want to just be known as an instructional designer or a learning consultant. I'm more if I really see like, what's, what's my love, and where's my future, I'm more of an entrepreneur, right? And when that happens to have that learning background, and that happens to be what I invest in when I love. And I also started following Cody's Angela's on YouTube. And she talks a lot about, you know, buying businesses and investing more on, you know, Main Street type businesses like brick and mortar or like a plumbing company and things like that. So it's like, you know, it's actually quite genius to buy a profitable business and, you know, just build from there. And so I was actually looking at, you know, my husband has a semester of plumbing license. So it's like, oh, well, I plumbing companies and things like that. But I always set my eye out on learning companies and or HR and employee engagement. And one night, I was on a broker site, and I saw that training evaluation firms. It doesn't tell you who it is until you sign the NDA, signed, the NDA sent it over. And it was like 11 o'clock at night. And I see it says Kirkpatrick partners, and I freaked out. Partners for sale, excuse me, and I ever it's 11 o'clock at night. So I know my entire team is sleeping. So my husband wasn't going to be as excited as I was because he didn't really know too much about proprietress, although he had just written about it in his paper for his MBA. So I'm looking for my West Coast team. Finally find someone I'm like, I'm freaking out, you know, this is available. So I went through the process of meeting with the owner and submitting a letter of intent. We actually met right before the ATD conference. So we met and, you know, we had a couple conversations after I submitted my letter of intent, and she accepted it. And then we went through a summer of trying to get an SBA loan, coming up with a business plan. And we closed crazy fast within 45 days. On July 31, we closed so I officially took over August 1. And it was wild. You know, there's a lot of things happening personally, that time, my dad unfortunately fell and broke his hip while on vacation. So I was dealing with him in another state having surgery and a lot of issues there, him coming back. And he's my lawyer, by the way, and all of this you know, him coming back and him and my husband ending up at the hospital the same time the week before we closed. And it was just it was wild. But throughout the whole time I was like I'm persevering. I'm doing this. This is what I want. And I was still able to get the business close on time and what I love about this business I didn't On unnecessarily by another instructional design agency, like merging into anchored, what I wanted to do was look at the vertical and just kind of broaden our scope and look at complementary services. And so that's where, you know, I felt that Kirkpatrick would be a perfect fit. And so now, you know, I see myself more as you know, that, you know, learning investor and, you know, I have now a holding company that owns Kirkpatrick and ingred. And looking forward to what I could, you know, purchase or acquire, you know, buy literally equity into in the future. But the goal really there is to have a, have an employee engagement network of choice. So where if you want to, you know, it's kind of like when you go to the doctor, and you can go with a network, and everyone knows each other, they know the services. So you don't have to like go through your whole spiel, every single time, you could do that. Or if you have, you know, a specialist that you love so much, you can use some of our services, but then you go out of network for other things, because you love that. That's the Read for me, though. And the most important is I want to make sure that every single organization that I acquire or have equity in is all about employee engagement that's rooted in belonging. And so if we can have that thread through, and that's, you know, part of the mission, the core values, then yeah, I'm excited for that. And so what I'm excited to is that it's a new role, where I'm actually going in assessing what needs to be updated, adjusted, how can we, you know, bring additional value to the business. And then my goal is to step out of the day to day, CEO role and some of this EO and then move on to the next where I can deploy my team. We can, you know, help, it helps, you know, bring it up, and, you know, fix it up, and then move out and move on to the next and just provide value to the community.

Luis Malbas  
Love it. No, Vanessa, and I am excited to see how how both anchored and Kirkpatrick is going to change as you you work your magic on both of them. But what I mean, how different it is both like you have your team, hopefully the hacker team and then Kirkpatrick has I know they have their team? So it seems like they're almost on opposite ends of the spectrum. And you had you had any government or military clients prior like through anchored? Yeah,

Vanessa Alzate  
yeah. And that's where we're anchored. I've been working with government and military three anchored with my last full time role, I was working with local governments and Philadelphia, local government agencies. So I didn't have that background. And so they have a art, it's unlearning a lot. You know, like I mentioned more backstage, it's, you know, there's new employees that I didn't necessarily, you know, hire. So I've got to learn, you know, what they, how they work, you know, what their preferences are, you know, what is their zone of genius? Are they in the right seats on the bus? You know, are they doing? Are they really actually better if I put them in this role, no, really thrive? And so that's a lot of the figuring out that I'm doing along with what's the systems on the back end? And how can we leverage things like AI and technology to take out a lot of the manual work that they're doing now? And automate and free up some of the team's time? And looking at iterating. On videos, Patrick does mostly certification on the Kirkpatrick model, so how can we update that curriculum and, and do some some great work. So it's actually really nice, because they actually never had an instructional designer before. So my team gets to step in and support on that, and create better products, you know, and just adjust them a little bit. And I know that they'll be great. So it's quite interesting to go from where I built all the systems. And now I'm walking in and trying to understand, am I going to completely get rid of this system? Or can I, you know, is it working well enough that I, you know, can just get around it, and it'll be fine. But using it as is,

Luis Malbas  
wow, what an invaluable experience. This is. I mean, that is really, really impressive. So, um, let me talk a little bit about just your experience with instructional designers and, and your background just helping coach IDs.

Vanessa Alzate  
So you know, yeah, so I had been doing some some coaching, I realized that I didn't want to talk necessarily so much when I was on YouTube, about like the basics of instructional design. Like, I equate it to me being a mom. I was not a very good newborn mom. It was not my favorite time, because the kids were super needy, and they needed everything done for them. I tell people that all the time. I'm not a newborn mom. I am a legend. Right now. The girls are seven and six, while one will be six next week. I'm thriving right now because they're independent enough, but they still need me. We have really good conversation and I'm able to kind of, you know, they have their foundation and now I'm helping to mold based off from the foundation on that foundation. But yeah, I think that for me in terms of like coaching and instructional designers is, I like to talk to those that are you looking to expand, become more consultants, and really take their foundation that they've learned and now expand on it and work in their zone of genius. I'm very big on that. And I, that I find that we all thrive, and we all do better when we can spend as much time as possible in that zone of genius. And so now if you can figure out how to make money doing all the better, and you know, work just seems tough to find you no matter what.

Luis Malbas  
Right? No, that's, that's a great bit of bit of advice. And, you know, you wear so many different hats yourself. I mean, talking, you know, you have two girls, six and seven, as well as now you've got these two, you know, you you've got Kirkpatrick and you've got anchor training, as well as anything else in your life that you want to maintain and keep in balance. Time management, like, how are you managing all of that right now?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, it's hard right now, you know, I'll be honest, right now is a it's a different time. But I know it's a season. And so I think that's where the perspective, I think people get really down on, you know, burnout. And like, you know, this shouldn't be this hard or whatever, not realizing that sometimes it is a season, and sometimes you just put your head down, and it's going to be crazy. Like, the kids just went back to school. Now I'm managing the, the lunches in the morning and the after school activities. But I know that once I can figure that out, you know, once I'm on a schedule, we're back. And I know for me what I have to do in order to feel good, I need to try to get outside for a walk, I need to work out in some way in the morning, I need to do like my journaling and manifestation work in the morning, and I feel a little better. That's what I need doesn't mean that's what everybody needs. And then in terms of the day to day of the business, it's been really interesting, my team to take on certain things, and some of our hands off manager, you know, I like how things are like things done. But I'd rather you figure it out. And then we can talk about, you know, talk about it later. Again, now, I'm not a newborn Mom, where I'm trying to be in and do all the things for you. So for, for a while, I didn't have that, right, I didn't have a team. And for me, it was just prioritizing and knowing that I'm going to really grind it out in this season of my life. And maybe I'm gonna work some late nights. But I know for a fact, as much as I'm working right now, when my girls are in middle school, or in high school, I'm gonna have a lot of times I'll built the systems, I'll have built the teams that I can, you know, work a little bit less and still have the security for my family that I need, and be there for some of those times.

Luis Malbas  
You know, I just want to back up when you're talking about seasons, you're not talking about, oh, that's just the end of summer. You're talking about, like an actual sampling of time. Yeah. So it's like, okay, I get it. That's very interesting. I've never heard that before.

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, I just, it's a it's a, I think work life balance is not real. And I think sometimes your life has to take priority. And that's where you're gonna spend most of your time. But I think sometimes work is going to take priority, because, you know, like, if you're an accountant, you know, that April 15, deadline, that's your season, and that's where it's gonna take priority, and other things are gonna have to take a backseat. I think that's actually where the balance comes in. Because you could look at your overall year and say, you know, was, was it at least a little bit more balanced? And I'll be honest, I'm yours. I know, I'm going to be head down, grinding more on work. And other years, you know, as I'm able to focus more on on family and building the home and all of those things. Right, right.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, that's fascinating. I'm gonna I'm gonna take that one away, I think the whole idea of seasons because I know for myself personally, as I build event event, I feel like that is almost that cycle itself is, is a whole challenge for me. So so I'm going to, I'm definitely going to be considering that. Thank you. So you have your ear to the ground and l&d any emerging trends that you're seeing?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, I think, I mean, I would be remiss if I wasn't going to talk about AI. But I think that they're like, we are figuring out ways to become more efficient with our time in our in our day, I would take that with with a grain of salt and with with caution, but I think that if you're not figuring out how you can make utilize AI to make your day better. So like, I got annoyed taking notes. I was like, I'm just gonna bring in my otter and it's been a capture, you know, and capture the transcript. And I'll summarize it and get the notes from there, you know. So those little things are using things like Zapier to make your life a little bit more automated and easier. Those are the things that are going to actually free us up To have the drain time to think and be proactive, we're so often reactive. And a lot of times, it's because we're doing a lot of things manually or things that, you know, we just don't really have to be doing. So if you can find ways to automate, then we then you have that time to start thinking ahead, and being proactive and hat and having those consultative conversations. I also just think, honestly, it's going to, you know, you knew I was gonna say it video. And one of the things for me is, I think, sometimes a little bit of headed like this, the new generation that's coming into the workforce, because of my volunteer for my sorority, I sit on our International Executive Board. So I work with 18 to 22 year olds. And I have a lot of conversations with them. And a lot of people talk about, you know, Gen Z and you know, engaging them at work. And I'm already like, Have you all looked at Gen alpha, because that's, you know, they're like 15, to 18, and a lot of them in our workforce. But looking at how we're engaging some of these younger generations that are so used to pulling content when they need it, if they needed to know how to do something, they're gonna go and go to YouTube. Yeah. And we do that now. They just happen to grow up with it. So I think they expect it more than we may necessarily expect it. And the other thing I think is so interesting is how the workforce and benefits and the value of working at a company is going to change, because quite frankly, they're getting all fed a lot of information about you know, being an entrepreneur, if you can, you know, go out and you start your own business, you'll make a lot more money. You know, my girls board this morning, first day, they last night, I said, What do you want to be when you grow up? And they're like, I want to be rich? And I was like, Okay, well, how about an entrepreneur? Person this morning, you know, they want to be an entrepreneur. So that's what's as these generations are hearing, it's interesting how we shift and change our job roles, internally to help to bring some of them in and realize that they could be an intrapreneur without having to take the risk of being an entrepreneur.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah, no. And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that on September 20, to the 20 seconds, I'm doing an event, it's the TLD see AI Labs, which, if you go to the TLD, c.com, I'll have a link up there, but I'm just getting the program wrapped up, it's going to be absolutely amazing. And I do think Vanessa, that? Yeah, that AI is really a kind of a formative thing with l&d How you know how it's going to change. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to produce the event is because I think that it'll be a very different event in 2024. And so I'm kind of like, using these as sort of time capsules, to say, this is what we were talking about here. This is where we're gonna be talking, you know, and this is what we talked about in 2024. And what are we going to be talking about with AI in 2025? Because I think that products and just the whole way we do a lot of our jobs is going to change and even just as entrepreneurs, I don't know about you, but I think that AI has saved about 20 hours a week. In my life, it's really amazing. And so and so last question, speaking of that, one of the thing I really admire you is, as a female entrepreneur, and definitely a leader. What do you have any advice for other women that are wanting to do the same type of thing? I mean, you're talking about your daughters, and, and suggesting that, but I do think that, you know, like seeing you at DevLearn. And seeing you run your booth and you've got your team there. I was like, that is absolutely amazing in this sea of, you know, of Expo vendors that, you know, that have been doing this event for 20 years. Here, you are just really making a statement, and I was really impressed by that. But do you have any advice for other women out there that are just looking to get out and, and be success? Successful entrepreneurs in l&d?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's kind of cliche to say this, but don't let anyone else tell your spark follow your sparkle. You know, I for a long time, I let others and they sometimes right now with her contract, because I'm working government and military. Yes. Oh, am I gonna? Am I gonna double myself and it's not about doling myself. But it's about showing up as who I am. And just being able to shift again, so maybe some of the language that I'm using in order to hit the pain points that they're hitting, and help them to understand that. While you might be even slower to change than I think other organizations might be, you're still gonna have to get there. Right. And so, for female entrepreneurs, I think, you know, just understanding that, really, you can still be yourself and create the business that you want to create. There have been many times that I've turned to my team and I said, Is this even working? Should I just, you know, am I too much am I too to pink, I might choose Sparkle is this Is this too much of a difference, and then I'll meet someone or I'll have a conversation with someone they're like, I remember John, you all stand out, you helped me feel like I could be who I was in my business. And I think I want to see more people to do those things, and feel comfortable with within themselves and celebrate their own uniqueness.

Luis Malbas  
That's awesome. Vanessa, you are just rocking it. I you know, you've just been consistent from the beginning. You know, it's been a few years now since we've met. And I'm always impressed to see to see that consistency. And to actually, you know, just to see how you've just, you know, achieved all of this stuff. It's so, so amazing. And inspiration, I think, to everybody in this in this space. So I'm hoping to continue watching you or your your growth. Are you going to Las Vegas? Are you do you have time for that?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah. And I will be at DevLearn I will only be there, the first day of the expo halls and that runs through a new mastermind group that I that I've joined, but I will be there for a little bit.

Luis Malbas  
All right, nice. Well, I'm haven't quite decided whether or not I'm going. But if I do that, definitely stop by and say hi. Just amazing. All right. Well, Vanessa, thanks for having the conversation. I'm so excited to see what's next for you. And with that, I just want to appreciate I appreciate everybody jumping in that is in let's see, we had something in chat here. Oh, rachel saying I love that I always say I approach the instructional design role as part learning consultant, part project manager and park customer success manager. Oh, and then a question. Do you have any suggestions on how or where to build our consulting skills?

Vanessa Alzate  
Yeah, I think you need to stop paying attention to people like me that are only talking about learning and development and go watch other people that build businesses or that work in you know, business and consulting. So books like How to Win Friends and Influence People. You know, while keeping up to date on your learning development skills is incredibly important, and needs to be balanced. So checking out people that talk more about consulting and building businesses, you'll really learn a lot about what a CEO and things like that or a CFO was worried about. So then you can actually tailor your message around how learning can support them.

Luis Malbas  
Interesting. Do you get a lot of do consume like is a YouTube media that you're getting this from and books and

Vanessa Alzate  
yeah, YouTube inbox. I've been doing a lot of Alex and Leila Hormoz. A, especially right now buying the businesses and things like that. They've been great. You know, Alex does great around marketing and lead generation and sales and that visionary part, while it was all about the team and the operations and day to day, so I'm getting a little bit of both.

Luis Malbas  
Nice, nice. And who was it? I want to say who was a Cody Sanchez?

Vanessa Alzate  
Sanchez. Yeah. All right. Excellent.

Luis Malbas  
All right. And with that, I'm gonna go ahead and close this out, Vanessa, thanks again and everybody tomorrow we have special guests, Cindy Nagel, who is in the audience right now. We finally get to talk to and discuss her background and her her her journey into l&d. And so with that, thanks, everybody, and we'll see you next time. Thanks again, Vanessa. Thanks, bye

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