Community Showcase: Ian Crook

Luis Malbas  
Alright, hello, everybody. Welcome to the Training, Learning and Development Community. Happy New Year to you all. We've got a first member showcase for 2022 with our guest Ian crook, who I have actually had a lot of fun chatting with. We've already talked once before this, and I even did some some interwebs research on him managed to find all the podcasts that he's to do and

Ian Crook  
embarrassingly.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, you got to be careful about that stuff. Yeah. I often actually, you know, check for myself, like some of the stuff that I've found. It's, it's kind of amazing that things like, you know, from early 2000s, from being in like Hewlett Packard message boards and stuff that like, you know, I'm asking server questions. I'm like, that is still like,

Ian Crook  
Our Live Journal is still alive?

Luis Malbas  
Exactly. Well, so we I've got like about a dozen questions for you. Um, we got 30 minutes. And yeah, let's see, Laura, can everyone hear the audio just fine. I can hear Ian just fine. So and Lauren, you probably can't hear us. But let's see maybe if somebody else can type in there, and we want to make sure that you're able to hear our audio. Okay. Let's see who's got it. We've got an Spalding is here. Lauren is here. Hopefully, she'll be able to hear us. It's Elizabeth, Jennifer. Heather, thanks for joining us today. And we'll get started with some of these questions. Now, just a reminder for some of those that are new and we've had a lot of new subscribers, new members to to LDC, just in the last couple of weeks, it's actually been kind of kind of incredible, the the amount of new memberships we've been getting lately. But what we do is we do these member showcases for for members that come in, and it's just a chance for us to explore. You know who these people in this learning and development world are. And we've done I think we did about 60 last year, and hopefully we'll do at least that amount again this year. And it is a great resource. If you're wondering about instructional design, learning experience, design, and whether or not it's the career for you, or you just want to network and meet people, this is a great way to do it. And so we're going to start with Ian this year, who I think is a great person to meet, I'm already happy to have met him. And, and so and Ian is a tech instructional designer, over at Amazon Web Services, AWS. And my first question to you, Ian, is what is a tech instructional designer?

Ian Crook  
Um, so attack a technical instructional designer, at least how it's looked at inside of a ticket again, I have no idea what's going on my camera. I apologize. Let me switch. Let me switch this out. No problem.

Luis Malbas  
And feel free to you can just keep on chatting and answering that question if you want while you're doing your work. I'm just having like some cable problems with this camera. And hopefully we'll get that resolved.

Ian Crook  
Now I'll switch to this camera. Yeah, there we go. Ah, always have redundancy, something. Definitely not is clear. Anyway. Okay, so tech instructional designer. All right. Um, so basically, from what I've, from what I've seen a technical instructional designer, and I know our field is full of titles, that mean the same thing, and sometimes don't. I'm a technologist, it's just someone that focuses and has a little bit of background with the technologies that they're, they're kind of designing for my entire background, leading up to instructional design has been it like I was, you know, break fix for a while I was, you know, a sysadmin for a hot minute there. I'd been in the data centers, doing a myriad of roles, just doing strictly it little bit of process improvement. And stuff like that. And then, you know, the accidental, accidental learner, you know, the accidental trainer starts coming in, and, you know, they realize that, like I, I understood the business process improvement side of things, and then I got super passionate about the behavioral change management side of things, which goes into training. And that's kind of what it is and just an instructional designer that understands and knows the technology. Probably a little bit more intimately than then. Just a typical,

Luis Malbas  
right, right. So you're kind of a subject matter expert, like a hybrid that an instructional designer,

Ian Crook  
a little bit um, at a minimum, it's You know, I'm the the engineers are my are my people, so to speak. So at the worst case scenario, I know how to talk to talk and like speak at that technical level and understand where they're going with concepts. But on the other side, I may just know what's going on.

Luis Malbas  
Okay, cool. So and just so folks know, like, I have an IT background, too. So hopefully, this doesn't get too geeky. But I am curious, like, is your special? You know, do you did you specialize in like, cloud technologies before? And that's how you got into AWS? Or how did that happen, or you started working in AWS, and then you learned, you know, the, the technology?

Ian Crook  
Sure. So actually, most of my career has been break fix, whether it be you know, like, one of my first break fix Jobs was like a Geek Squad. I think that's the added for like, every single, every single person, and it is they've worked at Geek Squad at some point of their life. And I went from there and worked at a couple managed service providers doing a little bit more. And then before I joined Amazon, I was working at a managed service provider that was more focused on the network aspect. So you know, when you're on like an Amtrak train, or in, you know, in some other circumstances, some buses were there, they provide internet, like I helped do break fix and remote management of those devices. And then getting into Amazon. It was within the data centers. So it's like I was still kind of doing. In this case, it was decommissioning and like rack install, and a whole bunch of other stuff. But it was still kind of getting your hands dirty with the equipment. So it's like, Yes, I was dealing with the cloud, but I was physically still doing fundamentally the same things. And then, you know, from there, it's just, you're kind of in the ecosystem, and you're learning a lot about AWS services and the technologies used and, you know, being a ruthless self improver, I, I get fascinated by a ton of things. So, you know, understanding how AWS works, you know, the cloud in general, and being able to utilize something like that. Also, I'm passionate about because it's techie. But now I get to utilize that knowledge and talk with other people that know way more than me and hopefully create environments where people can can learn.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, that's really interesting. So now let's talk about how did you get into into l&d? Like, how did that happen? Because, you know, I guess learning about AWS and, and even it all around, that's kind of just a different animal, right? And probably a pretty lucrative one, if you're in the right position. But here you are, you're an instructional designer, how did that how did that happen?

Ian Crook  
Sure. So, um, I, as I said, I was always been kind of in it, but like, the other nerd subject that I was into was like business process improvement and change management. So you know, Lean Six Sigma value stream mapping, Kaizen is all that stuff. Um, and I got really into that, because processes and procedures and making things more efficient, is just something that I just find fascinating. And what, at the end of all, change management and processes is, you know, you get the split, it's either a systems change, where you're developing new tooling, new software, etc, etc, to create those efficiencies, or you're at, and you're having to take a look at, like behavioral change. And I got fast, I mean, I got obsessed with the behavioral change side of things. Um, and I was, you know, I had a mentor, that, you know, that was part of kind of like a change management process improvement team. And he had just started up a training team, and I got put on that team. And then that's kind of where it all started. And I just started continuously hunkering down and, and learning and just constantly learning I'm endlessly fascinated by the science of how people learn, and how it can apply to corporate environments. Like it's just super fascinating.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, no, that's great. That's so where did the whole instructional design thing make it experience?

Ian Crook  
No, sure. So, um, when I kind of jumped into the, the process improvement team that was actually like the said like, okay, so you're going to become a trainer or like training, you're going to go into training and it's like, okay, I know a lot of stuff in theory, but I haven't, like professionally applied a lot of this stuff. And they're like, Oh, you'll be fine. You'll also do supply chain. And it's like, okay, haven't done that either. Um, neat. Okay, let's, let's go with this. And they're like, I'll do fine. Um, and honestly, that like baptism by fire, where like, it was like, Oh, you've got an interest in this cool. throw you into the, you know, the deep end? Yeah, um, is what got me into, you know, at least the production aspect of it. You know, I started really focusing in on like, Captivate when it was kind of the industry leader at the time articulate two was out during that time. You know, just making videos and making like engaging content. And then it was like, Okay, I know how to produce things, because, you know, it kind of get used to software, in general, and then I started going, like, I want to make sure what I'm creating is actually having an impact. And that was just slow, transformative direction from like, being it dealing with software now I'm producing and now I'm like, really getting into the nitty gritty of, you know, like cogs sigh and, like, why and how people learn and what creates engagement.

Luis Malbas  
Really interesting. So how much formal training and instructional design have you had,

Ian Crook  
um, it's mainly through a TD. So I do have both the instructional design and the elearning instructional design, basic certs, but I also do have the master instructional design cert there and I'm, I'm studying studying for some other certs is well, CPD. But I don't have any necessary like academic training, a lot of it is just, you know, when I don't know something, I either seek out that knowledge, or I find people that have that knowledge, too. And I just, you know, I pretty much go to them Be like, I love everything you're doing. Please tell me, please.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. And so, um, wow, so this passion for l&d for, for being an instructional designer? What was it really that kind of, like, drove you above? Sort of, like what you loved about it? There must have been something that said, I'm going to choose this over this, or was there anything like that?

Ian Crook  
Um, I think the, the, the click in my head, was, I think I said this far, like I'm ruthless, self improver. I really, really love learning to the point where, you know, there are some instances where I'll get anxiety where it's like, my head says, I need to learn this. And it's like, if I don't my head, start saying, well, you should learn this. Now. By the way, if you ever want to learn how to get your pilot's license, and what plane you should get, even though I'm not getting that in a decade. I know that too, because my brain said I had to learn it. So I learned it. Oh, um, I yeah, I would, I would say probably the biggest thing that clicked was my love for learning, just in general. But also, you know, it is very programmatic in a lot of ways. Like there's, there's a, there's the correct way of doing things. And then there's the broken way of doing things. And having that thought into process improvement and, you know, building businesses and all this other stuff. Like, if I can do that for learning and saying, like, what is the what is, I don't want to say the correct way, because that is such a nebulous term, that, you know, if there is a most efficient way for learning for any particular environment. It was like scratching all of those itches, I was learning new things I was creating, you know, helping create improvement. I was seeing change happened right in front of me. And I just I kept you know, I kept chasing that dragon, so to speak, and it's just like, it's, I just constantly want to do that for for people. Just in general. I have never

Luis Malbas  
that term associated with with lnd. So that's definitely a first. That's great.

How about some things that you wish you had known when you had first started out? Like when you just gotten into it is there I mean, how, actually, how long have you been, you know, a practicing instructional designer? Ah,

Ian Crook  
I want to say a total probably a total of like five or six years. Okay. Yeah, probably a total of five or six years, there was a stint where I had to kind of step away from the training team. And then I went back into it, you know, some career hodgepodge sort of stuffs happened during that time. But it was always one of those things that's like, Okay, I'm going, you know, I'm forking off of this for now. But it's like, I'm, that's when I started getting the certifications. And it's like, I'm, I'm going to move back on to that path. Just in general, the thing that I probably would want to learn now, much to the chagrin of many instructional designers, is probably be a little bit more astute in JavaScript. I really, like in terms of collecting data, also creating, you know, engaging online material and like all this other stuff, like knowing intermediate level JavaScript, versus knowing basic JavaScript is like light years of capability that you can get from any of the materials you create. Yeah, so prop, probably, probably JavaScript at this stage.

Luis Malbas  
That's one of those things that have it's been on my list for a really long time. It's like, Ah,

why can I never get to that I really want to learn JavaScript. I mean, right? Just it's so painful, though. Yeah, yeah. Just as technology professionals, it's almost like something you need to know. Right? Right. Because there's always like, Okay, I gotta hand this over to this guy. Because he knows JavaScript, rather than being able to do yourself, you'd rather do yourself. But you know, like, for me anyway, I'd rather keep it in house for me, rather than having to hand it over to somebody else. But yeah, no, that's a good one.

That's a good one. Excellent. All right. Let me see what other questions I got on here. Um, so Oh, yeah. Typical day as a, as a technology instructional designer, I don't get to talk to many of your types. So what's it like,

Ian Crook  
um, a lot of it is pretty typical instructional design, where it's just you're just trying to figure out like, where the learning gaps are and where the needs are. And, but where it stops and starts changing is, you know, obviously, when they start saying, like, oh, we need a little bit no more knowledge on, you know, XYZ particular service. So, you know, for instance, like, if somebody wanted to learn more about EC two, it's like, okay, well, that's broad. What specifically, are we talking about? easy two? Are we talking about like, oh, well, you know, utilizing lambda scripts with EC two instances, to help turn them on and off, you know, like, that type of stuff. It's like, okay, okay. And you're able to kind of speak at that same level. So a good chunk of it is just like, understanding what services are available, understanding what your customer ones, but also understanding the technology so that you can, so you're not flying blind into every conversation with a Smee. And, you know, anybody else? So? Like, that's, that's probably the biggest difference between there is, like, you're, you're speaking the language of the engineer, in a lot of instances.

Luis Malbas  
So is there a lot of sort of professional development going on what you know, on the job, you're just learning the learning the terminology learning, you know, making sure that you have your, your head wrapped around, you know, the variety of AWS sort of products and services, so you can support accordingly? Is that is that just a big part of your everyday, you know, function?

Ian Crook  
Um, there, there is definitely like that professional development aspect of it. But you know, it's kind of like, it's kind of like what I said before, it's like, I see something, and like, if I get assigned to projects, it's like, you kind of have to start deep diving it, you know, you know, there, there are a lot of very specific things that, you know, you could lose the trust of your sneeze very quickly, if you're coming in being like, how do you make the computers beep and boop, and they're just like, Okay, I can't talk to you, because everything I'm going to say is going to go over your head, and it just becomes much more difficult. So like, you know, when a project comes your way, you may not know what those services are, specifically, when the project kind of lands in your lap, but then that's up to you to also like, read the documentation, kind of go through that type of stuff. And having an IT background kind of makes that process a whole lot quicker.

Luis Malbas  
Right, right. Okay. Excellent. Elizabeth has a nice comment about JavaScript on here. And I think Lauren posted something in the QA as well. So let me just actually start out with this is the expectation is You know, for, for your job is that you have like a good handle on producing like elearning, you know, using Captivate and using articulate products to be able to, to create content.

Ian Crook  
Sure, not in my current role. Generally speaking, however, like in my previous role, it was a lot of creating content and managing content through things like articulate rise, and a little bit of storyline, and even kind of diving a little into like CSS and kind of hacking things through there. So I would say like, where I'm at currently is typically not the norm. We've, we've actually kind of split the instructional design aspect and the development into two separate teams. So that, you know, my focus is definitely more on really making sure and understanding what the learning gap is, and designing the story, you know, the storyboard and like how we're going to get there onto the other side of that learning gap. And then you pretty much take that work order and work with a, you know, a curriculum developer and they, they put the, you know, they they rubber on the road type stuff, right,

Luis Malbas  
right now, it feels like most especially larger enterprise orgs, you know, like, I think, smartly strategize to you know, to compartmentalize things just right, you know, just to scale better, but I'm just sort of associated with that Lauren's question is, and she's just curious, which l&d systems tie into JavaScript, just wondering what that is optimizing, just wondering what that is optimizing for, for course, development, or ideas.

Ian Crook  
Yes. Uh, so, um, pretty much anything that goes on the web has JavaScript attached to it. So I don't want to say like the world's your oyster with JavaScript, if you're doing any sort of elearning, or any sort of web based anything's, um, but for instance, you know, articulate, Articulate Storyline 360, you're able to add specialty triggers that just run JavaScript code. So you can do a lot more complex things with your, you know, your, your storyline module, for instance, I was I was doing a bunch of randomized dice rolls on, on some certain things, I never finished this, but like I was having a problem with it, because I was just using a million triggers, which is something that happens when you're dealing with storyline. And it just ended up that it's just like, it's a lot easier to call a JavaScript function that just inputs the variables you need into our inputs, the data you need into variables, just right then in there, instead of like, trying to code with the triggers, instead, you could just have a block, and then it's much more organized, much more clean and much more functional. Um, another thing too, that I would probably say that, you know, JavaScript is a really important thing. I think we, the majority of us have heard X API and the ability to collect way more discrete behavioral data, just in general, like JavaScript is a fundamental of how those agent statements work. It's not a requirement, but that's what everything's kind of built around is JavaScript. You can write them in Python and whatever language as long as they can talk online, and, and, you know, puke, the correct statement now. But fundamentally, though, it's, you know, that's a big aspect of collecting, excuse me, collecting larger sets of data in X API. So I know that's kind of like a wide breadth answer to like, you know, learning JavaScript, but it's like, it's one of those things that like, if you don't know it, that's fine. The tools that are out there are really good. And they can you can get by utilizing them. But once you start learning how you can create your own tooling to get it specifically where you want it to go to grab specific sets of data to collect specific types of data, like all about that extra polish JavaScript can JavaScript will absolutely get you there.

Luis Malbas  
Right, right. I think that especially if you have any kind of elearning focus, it's just, it's a really powerful tool to have in your toolbox. And it's just one of those things where I know that pretty much in most technical sort of situations, I've been in anybody that has JAVA script attached to them, like they have that skill. They're put into a separate pile of like, you know,

let's let's consider this person and it's not like you know, like I want to point out Elizabeth, Elizabeth Elizabeth comment where she's talking about how, let's see what she say here. She started out as a Artists started as an artist and graphic designer now and instructional systems designer, she, she learned she took an intro to JavaScript mini course much harder than anticipated. Right? But it's not impossible, right? It's just one of those things, you just got to stick with it and learn it. And for me, I noticed that I have to set aside a certain amount of time, and you need the projects to work on it. Right. So, you know, like torrents learning has some, you know, they're the wonderful cohorts that they do, where that might be a great way to, you know, to get into it and just kind of force yourself to focus on learning JavaScript, but it's not impossible. You can you can definitely do it.

Ian Crook  
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's programming. And I don't know if it's because of the severity of ADHD, like, it is an uphill battle. I feel like I forget what mythology is, you know, the guy just pushing the stone up the mountain constantly. And it's just like, it's just such a difficult path. But I know that even understanding and being able to implement minute aspects of JavaScript open up massive doors that most folks don't realize. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
huh. It's like learning algebra. I know that for me, it just you just, I, when I had that Albert algebra breakthrough, whenever I was, you know, whenever I was 12, or 13, you know, I'm like, Oh, wow, I get it, I get it. And that's how it felt like when I was in it, and I was taking programming classes and be like, What is this C++? I cannot and then all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, got it. And then all of a sudden, six hours would go, like, just like that just right, like programming and compiling stuff. But right. That's a whole other story, but you just got to stick with it. Alright, so how about just give us some examples of maybe do you have a training project that you particularly are fond of that you'd like to kind of brag about?

Ian Crook  
We're, um, I don't know if I can talk about much, because a lot of that stuff. I, I did, at least at Amazon is under NDA. So I can't necessarily talk about that. But I will say I do have a project and I will share this link. Right. Yeah, right. It is just a rise module. But the story behind the mark rise module is hilarious. So this isn't like I said, this isn't something like recent, I made this a couple years ago, the context is my wife got stuck at her mother's house, like 300 miles away, and I was where I am now. And just the car broke down. She called me up and I'm mechanically inclined, also, I think that happens with a lot of IT people, he just learned how to diagnose everything. Um, and I knew what the problem was, I knew what the problem was. And I was just like, alright, it's an easy fix. For me, I know how to walk someone through it. And I really don't want to pay for a tow truck. And I don't want to pay for a mechanic out of state. Like, I really don't want to do that. So I asked her, Would you be okay, if I made you in elearning? On how to fix the car. And it's, you know, I whipped this up in like, three hours. So it's, it's not it's not polished by like, any stretch of the imagination. But like, uh, you know, and I also, you know, it was a blended learning, you know, moment, like, I was on the phone there was it was vi LT also. Um, so I created like, the training for my wife to change the ignition coils on our 2012 beetle. Wow. And she did it. She got home, like, yeah. What better way to say the training worked than to be like, That's exact. That's the perfect evaluation. I love it. Boom.

Luis Malbas  
Is this something that I could actually link out? Can people?

Ian Crook  
Yeah, I mean, I personally, I personally don't mind. I mean, it's an articulate rise review, link. I don't know how. I don't know how permanent those are. Yeah, I've been meaning to try to put it on like an s3 bucket or something. But that's another it takes time. And I've got to do a million things. So

Luis Malbas  
that is great. No, thanks for sharing that I would click on it, but then I'd be afraid I'd get taken away to somewhere that where I couldn't get back. So I'm gonna have to look at that right after we, we wrap up here. I don't have that much time. But I do want to know a few more things. Like, how do you stay on top of your professional development?

Ian Crook  
Um, a lot of it is just putting myself into circumstances that I know I don't know what I'm doing in some instances. So like interests, like stretching, not being dangerous about it or being you know, increasing liability, but just knowing that like, Oh, hey, I actually don't know. You know, this particular service. Um, Sure, I'll take it, I know I have the capability of learning quick. I know I have the capability of, you know, applying instructional material. I'm alright, let's figure this out. And and just taking those chances, and in constantly looking at, like, how can you stretch yourself just a little bit day by day. And just being in just make that part of like how you make decisions, like, I don't want to say like, you know, look at it from, how can I make my life just a little bit harder? Um, you know, like, don't think of it like that, but just more or less, like, how can I make this so that I grow? Or I move the needle? Just a little bit on, you know, every day?

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. Now you're definitely I mean, it's obvious that you're a learner. And I totally admire that about people on you see more like a CTO type to me, so

Ian Crook  
it's pretty, I wouldn't go that far.

Luis Malbas  
Alright, so and what other kinds of jobs have you worked prior to? Even being at AWS? Was it been it forever, or ever deliver pizza or anything?

Ian Crook  
Uh, yeah. Okay. Yes, technically, I worked at a pizza joint for a day. And I worked at McDonald's until I had a nervous breakdown, because I require, like, some creative control. And it's impressive, but also, I can't deal with it. They have everything figured out at macdon. Like, everything is figured out. Uh, no. But my first job that I had, was actually at a vinyl sign shop. It's where I learned a lot of my business acumen. It was a small shop. And you know, I learned a bit of graphics design and learn how to produce, you know, posters and signs and signage, and all this other type of stuff. And the owner, you know, he was he was my mentor for the longest time. And he helped me like, really kind of figure that entrepreneurial spirit and that and just like that part of me, and I grew that until, as you know, as I said, Before, the instructional bug hit me and then it's just like, I want to do this now.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah, no, I love those kinds of jobs. Um, alright, last question. And so if you weren't an l&d professional, what do you think you'd be?

Ian Crook  
I wasn't l&d Professional. What do you think could be? Um, I think it would be really fascinating. So I'm learning the bagpipes too. So if I could become a professional bagpiper, that'd be hilariously awesome.

Luis Malbas  
I love it. I love it. Do you have like, what do you do to? I mean, do you have like a select sort of playlist of bagpipes that you listen to? Or what inspires you in bagpipe worlds?

Ian Crook  
Sure. So uh, I am my grandpa, my great grandfather was Scottish. My dad and my grandfather were British. And just like, it's just kind of like a fascinating instrument anyway, I'm also loud and boisterous. And you can't find an instrument that doesn't equate to that more than the bagpipes. I'm just in general, actually, fun fact. Like, if you're playing indoors, like I have to wear earplugs because it can get upwards to like 110 decibels. With the reverb. It is a loud instrument. I'm neighbors left bay. And yeah, just like a little bit of the heritage, but also just like the folk aspect of it. I don't know, it just, it's just like one of those things. It just seems fun. And I wanted more musical creative outlets. And this one stuck.

Luis Malbas  
I love it. Look how long you've been doing it.

Ian Crook  
About a year and a half, two years now. I can play some stuff. I actually just got pushed up to a more difficult read. And I've been having sinus issues all day. So like, usually my my lips blow up before my lungs do but my lungs are just like, I don't even know why you're doing this right now. You're I'm just gonna stop. And, and then I'm just like, Okay, I need to catch my breath. Um, because it's such a difficult instrument. It is the most physical instrument I ever played, replayed. It's so difficult.

Luis Malbas  
It's great. That's great. That's awesome. Yeah, and thanks so much for spending some time with us. I'm so glad to meet you. Um, let's see, I don't have your LinkedIn profile in front of me. I'm going to paste it in after we're done here. So you know if I think

Ian Crook  
it literally is just I'm Ian crook. Okay, yeah. And of the brand I've been trying to push it just I mean crack. I don't know. Like,

Luis Malbas  
yeah, yeah, I find your website too. But

Ian Crook  
yeah, there's that might be that might be locked down. I'm trying to figure out what I want it to look like it might be if it's not my problem. Should it be

Luis Malbas  
locked down? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright, and thanks a lot, everybody. Thanks again for joining us today. And don't forget sign up at the end of this month. We've got that teacher to instructional design event that is happening. Very popular. I've got like close to 300 people already signed up for that one. It's not till the 21st. Yeah. And then there is a writing insert for instructional design event coming up at the end of the year who we have on that line. Christy Tucker, Janeiro's Kim Lindsey, I still am waiting on a couple more people. So that should be great event too. And with that, we're going to sign off. Thanks, everybody. Thanks again, and I'm going to contact you again. Maybe we'll do another broadcast soon.

Ian Crook  
Yeah, definitely take it easy. Alright.

Luis Malbas  
See everybody. Bye.

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