Community Showcase: Heather Appell

Luis Malbas  
Hello, everybody, welcome to the training learning and development community. Thanks for joining us today we are doing a member showcase with Heather Appell, who, gosh, she's been involved with the TLDC Community for a while. She's even been to some of our live events, right, which is pretty incredible to me. You were at the first one, I believe, right? It was in San Diego. Yes, you can actually, you can actually say that you've been to the TLDC live event. And we haven't had one in a couple years. But hopefully that'll change at some point soon. So, yeah, for everybody that's out there. Let's see, we've got a handful of people that are that are live, we got Sherry, Avi, Jack, Cheryl, Michelle. Danny is here. Thanks for coming in. Um, we're gonna be doing another member showcase talking to Heather getting to know Heather more as a person sort of talk a little bit about her career. And this is just an opportunity for those of you in, in the community to kind of get to know each other. And, and connect on LinkedIn. In fact, is it okay, Heather, if I just post in your own LinkedIn? Absolutely. profile. Here we go. All right. So there you go. There's Heather's link. So I've got 10 questions. We're gonna get into this right now. Heather? Yeah. So instructional design, you've been doing training and development for a really, really, really long time, like, yeah, has it been 20 years old? 20 years? Yeah. When was the first time that you heard about instructional design?

Heather Appell  
So I actually I taught Middle School for three years. So I have a master's in education. So I would say really, it was in my Master's in education. My teaching program was the first place that I really, you know, it wasn't as it was instructional design back then.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah. Was it something that just immediately you're like, Oh, that's what I want to do?

Heather Appell  
Yes, it's actually you know, one of those things where maybe you say things in passing, and you forget, but people remember, I met my best friend in my graduate school program. And she reminded me She's like, Don't you remember, you said you wanted to get into corporate training? And I was like,

Unknown Speaker  
No, I don't remember that.

Heather Appell  
She's like, yeah, you said it in the program. So even then, even when I was, you know, planning on being a classroom teacher, part of me was like, Oh, I really want to get into corporate education.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, that is actually, I haven't heard that much from from folks. That one. So you've kind of been in it from the beginning. That's scary. jack is saying you have to watch out for those teachers. It's true. So true. Middle School teachers especially. Yeah, yeah, so your favorite part of being an l&d or being an instructional designer?

Heather Appell  
You know, it's helping people be successful, you know, really seen that light bulb, you know, we hear it a lot because it, it's true for a lot of us, right, but seeing that light bulb having having somebody learn something new, and then for me, really turning around and seeing them, apply it and be successful. And, you know, in corporate training, that is often improved performance on the job, for instance.

Luis Malbas  
Right, right. No, that one, I hear from a lot of folks. And I think that is one of the reasons why I love doing these showcases so much, because that's just sort of a core belief amongst folks in this community. And, you know, can't complain about that. Yeah, it's just I think I feel like I'm around the right people whenever I hear that answer. And so, for ServiceNow, what kind of projects you're working on?

Heather Appell  
Yeah, absolutely. So about four months ago, now, I shifted teams within ServiceNow. I'm still in ServiceNow. But I shifted to what we call our expert programs team. And this is an externally facing team primarily. It's and what it does it so our customer training. And so what it does is it really focuses on the pinnacle of our ecosystem, if you will. And what that means for people not like in software technology, is, you know, the most skilled, most knowledgeable folks who sought service now as a software. So who can architect that software with other systems so that it works the way that the customer wants it to work, it achieves the business objectives that they want it to achieve. And for those of you who aren't familiar with ServiceNow, it is a software but we also call it the platform of platforms. And so at its core, it's a workflow software. But you know, think about how many just as a consumer, how many different workflows you do in a day, whether you're ordering on Amazon or watching Netflix, you know, or whatever. ServiceNow actually brings all of those different systems together. So for instance, Disney plus uses ServiceNow platform to handle all of their customer tickets. So if you're having issues with Disney, plus you go to the website, you type in your issue, that platform is actually ServiceNow

Luis Malbas  
Wow. So okay, now this expert so this expert programs that you're doing, what are you building it? Or it's it's you so

Heather Appell  
yeah, it's a good question. So currently we have two programs, we have one called certified master architect, and one called certified technical architect, and certified master architects been around for about three years and certified technical architect, we are literally finishing our pilot program right now. And the really exciting thing about these programs in addition to you know, just it really being kind of a, an elite certification is that they both take place over long periods of time, the certified master architect or CMA program is six months. And the certified technical architect program, CTA is three months. And they're both collaborative cohort based learning in a flipped classroom model.

Unknown Speaker  
So for those

Heather Appell  
learning and development geeks out there, like me, it's a really great opportunity to be creative to play like, oh, and Hey, there was a pandemic. So is was, there is right and so we're not meeting in person anymore. How do you make a highly collaborative program when people are literally in different continents on different continents? So it's been a really interesting project?

Luis Malbas  
That sounds like it's really challenging, but at the same time, I'd like for an elegy professional, a very good kind of challenging, it must be a lot of fun for you, too. Exactly. It is, it's really great. Wow, that's, that's really, really cool. Um, yeah, and I can see like, behind you, you have like some visual. You keep keep keep those handy as you're going through your day. Exactly. Yeah. So how about some things that you would wish you had known when you would started out your career? I mean, I think, honestly, I think I told you this before I remember and I say this other speakers too. You know, I was in the in the l&d conference business, like, I started out in like, 2005, I think, but I just remember people's names, because I used to do the batch printing, right? And your last name is in the A's. So of course, like, you know, like, especially with the A's, we were always testing A's. Because those that that would always be the first batch. And so your name is like kind of stuck in my head. It's like, Oh, yeah, I had to reprint that one a bunch of times. You've been going to conferences and stuff like that forever, like, on the prevent professional development side? Like, is that something that you are glad that you have participated in all these years?

Heather Appell  
Oh, my gosh, absolutely. I think that's part of what drew me to training, you know, everybody's heard, you know, find what you love to do and find a way to get paid for it. Like, like, if I couldn't be a professional student and pay my bills. I 100%. What? And this is kind of the next closest thing.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So does it just I mean, is it inspiration that keeps you going? This is what what do you get out of going to live events?

Heather Appell  
Well, you know, that same passion that I have for seeing the light bulb come off, and continuously help people get better, like, I'm committed to that, you know, I think that I kind of consider development a mountain with no top. And so you know, it's, it's the journey, and every time I learned something new, I get to apply it and take it to the next level and just keep, you know, keep setting challenges for myself.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, I love that a mountain with no top it is you're just constantly just, you know, you're just climbing and just get used to the climb. That's the that's basically, the goal is just to continue making that ascent. Right.

Heather Appell  
Exactly. And as soon as you get one top, no surprise, there's another. There's that. Now it's time to now it's time to submit that one.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, no, that's great to hear. So how about a training project that you're especially proud of that you can tell us about, you can share with us something that you kind of, maybe just want to brag about a little bit?

Heather Appell  
Well, I'm pretty exciting. You know, if we talk in six months, I think I'll have a different answer. Because I'm pretty excited. We've just finished this pilot learned a lot. You know, and so the next iteration of, you know, what we're going to be doing with, with the collaborative, we've we're implementing new software to help with the collaboration, actually a couple of tools that we're really excited about. But separate from that, you know, what I would say, so previous to ServiceNow, I worked for a company named avalara also Software as a Service, but a different kind. They do transactional tax calculation, you know, sales tax and things like that. And when I started there, they it was, again, customer in charge of customer training. And for avalara. Actually, it's everything from you know, it's used for major retailers to calculate sales tax on different transactions, to you know, Mom and Pop selling widgets on eBay, out of their, you know, out of their attic or their basement. And so creating a customer learning site that could really used personas to help whoever came to the website identify what information they needed to know, and then gearing it at a level that helped them whether, you know, they already have a master's in taxation, and they just want to know how to run reports, or they don't even understand why, you know, different tax jurisdictions tax different products in different ways, or the same textured jurisdiction, you know, taxes, different products in different ways.

Luis Malbas  
So that's fascinating.

Heather Appell  
So created a really persona based multimedia, you know, multiple learning styles website to help take customers identify where they were on the journey and find the right learning assets to meet their needs.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, how long did you do that?

Heather Appell  
I've been at ServiceNow for six years. So that was probably about seven or eight years ago.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. Because that, you know, it seems like that same kind of flow, that same type of idea happens a lot in marketing. Now, you know, and, and you can learn a lot from that type of thing.

Heather Appell  
Well, that was one of I'm really glad you brought that up. Because that, again, was one of the fun parts, I worked really closely with marketing, so that we were able to identify and get these, you know, get links into the email. So we're gonna kind of pair up and say, okay, you're getting a marketing email, to encourage you to take action of some sort. And with that marketing email, there was associated learning resources that people could link to,

Luis Malbas  
right. It's that whole sort of customer education piece that you're integrating in there. And I know that on TL DC, we've talked with folks that kind of, you know, delve into that a little bit. But it's great to hear that you've actually had some experience doing that. That's really, really cool. Um, so let me ask you about your being in the industries for as long as you have already made me feel so old. No, it is it is. It is. I mean, it's surprising to me how long I've kind of been around too. So. But I know that I've seen I, you know, that there's just been a lot of change, especially over, you know, the last 10 years, and especially because you've been an event, going to events and that type of thing. Is there anything that you found, you know, over the course of your career, as an educator, you know, you went from middle school to being an instructional designer, but something that was particularly challenging that you had to wrap your head around, that maybe you can share with us that you were able to kind of overcome and just, you know, become proficient at or just be, you know, be better at even though it was hard.

Heather Appell  
Yeah, you know, the the first things that two very different things came to mind. And one was, I spent several years working for a an accounting firm, and I was in charge of the CPE, the continuing professional education. So from a logistical perspective, that one definitely came up. But from a personal perspective, I would say it's it's presenting to executives, I get very nervous, I get very in my head. And I'm somebody who really likes to be prepared. And many of the executives I and I, and they need to be prepared. But many of the executives I present to they just want the high points, right, they want the bullet points and and I want to explain it all. And so really getting clear on what my style is. And getting clear on it's not about me, and it's not about what Heather wants to say it's really about what do the executives need to know? And what's the action that we want them to take based on the information? And being able to craft and deliver a presentation in a way that resonates with them? Is something that's taken, taken some work?

Luis Malbas  
How'd you figure it out? Did you get a coach? Did you have somebody help you? I did. I did.

Heather Appell  
I did actually took classes, you know, got a coach, I had a really good mentor, who was incredibly patient at reviewing my power. You know, I'd send it to him with 10. And he'd come back with three. And I'm like, Okay, good. Good. Yeah, help me cut it. So, so yeah, and that's actually something, you know, you asked earlier what I wish I had known early on. And you know, it's not something I don't think that you can take a class on or whatever. But it's that I don't need to have all the answers. But what I do need to do is be in communication with team. And that teamwork is really the key to success as far as I'm concerned. And so you know, being willing to be vulnerable, being willing to be open, be like, Hey, I know, I'm wordy. I know, my process is to start with everything, and then funnel it down. And would you be willing to help me with that, in this particular case was really helpful.

Luis Malbas  
That's great. So what's your team like now?

Heather Appell  
It's small, it's small. I'm working with four incredibly, highly experienced individuals. And that's actually that's really interesting that you ask they all come From the field, they all have been involved in ServiceNow as a software delivering it engagement managers, architects, things like that, which is great, because that's who we're training. That's who our programs are targeted at. And I have clearly, we've established my long experience in training and development come up through the training and development side. And so I got the role Shut up. My first day, people were introducing themselves and talk about imposter syndrome. I was like, I don't do any of this. I mean, I know enough to be dangerous, right. But I don't know, I, I don't know, the highly technical things about ServiceNow. And so for about two weeks, I was just like, they know so much more than me, Oh, my gosh, and it took two weeks for me to really, you know, kind of start asking, well not start, I

Unknown Speaker  
started on day one, but

Unknown Speaker  
really

Heather Appell  
ask questions, start doing a high level assessment and say, Hey, what about this? What about that? And they were like, we've never thought of that, like, Oh, we could do this or that, you know, just pulling out training best practices, you know, things like that. And they were like, Oh, yeah. Oh, we're so glad you're here. And so, you know, it took about two weeks for us to really see, again, power of teamwork. That while we have different strengths that all of us working together, was was really going to bring the program to the next level. Yeah.

Luis Malbas  
You know, I mean, and I know that in this space, you know, in l&d, a lot of folks, I mean, we do talk about imposter syndrome a lot. But I wonder, I mean, do you think that's because trainers tend to have to surround themselves around experts as smees anyway, and so maybe that's why sometimes they might not feel like they're as qualified, because you're around people that know so much about these specific things that you feel it, but then all of a sudden, you're like, wait a minute, my value is completely different than, like, what these other folks are. And and I definitely belong here.

Heather Appell  
Yes. And it's very interesting, just in this conversation, I'm hearing, I'm hearing my life, but I'm also connecting dots. Right? I said, I needed to know, I needed to feel like I knew all the answers right at the beginning. And oh, my gosh, the amount of work I would do when I was designing a course that, you know, was not something I was familiar with. And yes, of course, there's, of course, there's an amount of stuff that you need to do. But

Unknown Speaker  
I really

Heather Appell  
pushed myself to become as expert, as the people, I was training. And now I get that I don't mean to actually what I bring, which includes building relationships with sneeze, and you know, Smee wrangling and really being specific about what we need. And pulling that out of them brings just as much if not more value than me, internalizing it all myself, and then doing the instructional design.

Luis Malbas  
Nice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this one, jack, actually have a question. He has a question in here. And I think what happened was, was he probably went to your LinkedIn profile, and saw that you've worked in a variety of industries, right? Yeah. He's asking, I'd like to know the difference between the different industries that Heather's that that you've, you've done work in. Also, what she's found is the biggest challenge for people to learn in their environments. So how about we start with that first part, the different industries, you've worked in? some of the differences? Is there anything that you can highlight in particular?

Heather Appell  
Some of that, well, they'll just kind of really quickly go through it, as I said, started as a middle school teacher, and my first corporate training job was with nordstrom.com. So I again, well, you know, my expertise there that I really needed to gain was around shoes. I know. I am truly an expert in shoes. And then when I left Nordstrom, I actually

Unknown Speaker  
I did so much design about shoes.

Heather Appell  
And then I went into banking. This is where that imposter syndrome. And that's starting to figure out how to leverage my non expert strengths really came in. And I was in banking training for banking for about four years, I think, between the couple of banks. And then I moved into an accounting firm that I mentioned. And then I went to a large aeronautical company. I want y'all my LinkedIn. So then I went to Boeing, you guys, I managed a flight training program for Boeing. Spoiler alert, I don't know how to fly. So that was the one that was the one around the breakthrough with this means that like,

there's I'm not going to learn how to fly before I manage this program. So it's not going to. So it's time to learn how to leverage my sneeze really, really effectively. And then after that, I went into technology and have been in technology for the last probably nine or 10 years. Yeah, so you know, what I say is obviously very different subjects, right? Um, but human beings learn the way human beings learn. And that's what I know. And that's What I bring, along with project management and team management, but but really that that knowledge about humans learn how they learn. And then flight training, accounting, leadership technology. Sure,

Unknown Speaker  
we'll figure it out.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. So Well, how about this? Just quick, you know, like, sort of answer on the challenges when you were a trainer over at at Nordstrom? Like, what were like, what, what kind of challenges that that environment sort of pose versus, like, when you were working in, in, in finance? Yeah, um,

Heather Appell  
you know, I think, again, actually, it's rather common, which is time, right. And then it was kind of time to get people out, away from their jobs. But now that almost seems like a luxury these days almost seems like a luxury Oh, like, I'd like to have that fight back. You know, because it's, so it's even harder to have that split. That's that split intention when people are doing learning online and not checking their email or their slacks. So I think really, two things, fighting, and that's not the word I want to use. But that's the word that comes to mind fighting for the intention. And a way that I found in other organizations, and even here, although not these programs to really help with that is, you know, knowledge in the flow of learning, and how do you build that in? So you know, like, the email example I gave earlier, right? So I'm getting this marketing email, and it's at a time of need, right. And so now we're building the learning in there, rather than needing to go log into a learning management system, see what's been assigned to me, and complete that. So I think that's one of the biggest challenges. Wow, and then application, sorry, application, getting building in that time for people to practice to reflect and to get feedback. Because when we talk about how humans learn, and how humans improve performance, that's really the key people need a chance to apply, reflect and get feedback.

Luis Malbas  
And are you seeing that now still in love now that you're working in the tech sector with service now, that say that that same rule kind of applies? You see that same challenge universally? I do. I do,

Heather Appell  
and especially technical experts, and that's part of why I like the programs. I'm in so much now. But I'm, in my last, you know, five years at ServiceNow. Six technical experts especially Oh, just tell me. Well, I will. And I actually want you to practice and, and when they do, they do see the return on the investment of time, but sometimes that's that's a pretty high hurdle for some people.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. Wow. Do you still miss it? You miss the shoes, though, at Nordstrom? About that I've worn shoes for the last 18 months. Right, right. No, I think that it's probably kind of amazing. as a as a corporate trainer, how much you probably learned about us just doing your job, right?

Unknown Speaker  
We did. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
yeah. Yeah. That's great. So um, let me ask you, I'm gonna have like a few kind of big questions here. If you weren't an l&d professional, what do you think you would be?

Heather Appell  
Okay, so in like my fantasy world, I would be a professional poker player.

Luis Malbas  
Oh, my.

Heather Appell  
Wow. And then the like, two paths diverged realistic world, I probably would have been a financial advisor.

Luis Malbas  
Ah, okay, that makes sense. That makes sense. Wow. That's that's really, really interesting. Now, I'm, I'm a little background on the poker player part. There's a little bit of story there.

Heather Appell  
I've been playing poker for over Wow, probably, like 15 years now. I've been playing poker regularly for for about 15 years now. And I don't have enough time. I don't make enough time because I have all the time. I have. I don't make enough time right now, to really make that jump from good to very good. But you know, all the time and money I would study poker I would play poker and I would really take on, you know, the mountain with no top as far as poker goes,

Luis Malbas  
right? That is like That's the first time I've heard that one from anybody. So that is very, very cool. Heather. I'm of course always gonna remember that about you now. Um, so prior to book things in Vegas, that's me may or may not be why I go to conferences. You're the one in Vegas. Oh, really good professional development and other kinds of jobs. You worked before you were a middle school teacher. Was there anything that you did that kind of led you on the education path?

Heather Appell  
Well, my mom was a teacher. So you know I grew up with my mom was a teacher and I was actually you know, a lifeguard and a swim instructor so it can't count. They're like, definitely in the learning world.

Luis Malbas  
Mm hmm. Okay, no, that makes sense. So you started off like pretty much like, what was it straight out of college and just went straight to teaching? Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so if there's one thing that people should know about you, what is it?

Heather Appell  
Oh, you should know that I have this sense of humor of a 12 year old boy. So if somebody, especially in a corporate meeting, says something that can be taken another way, and I start laughing. That is 100% I am 100% laughing about what do you think I'm laughing about?

Luis Malbas  
That is hilarious. That is hilarious. And plus the poker player part. Oh, man, you should be definitely on one of those those shows those poker shows with those guys that are sitting around doing that. That's hilarious. Yeah. All right. Now I want to talk to you a little bit about the women of l&d conference. And I wanted to know what why did you want to get involved with that? What was what was what was important about that event? For you? Oh, that's a good question. Um, for me,

Heather Appell  
you know, and it's been interesting, you know, for me, in my experience, learning and development has kind of been like HR, where it's an area where there tend to be more women. So when I first saw the conference, and I was thinking, like women of l&d, I'm like, well, there's a lot of women in l&d. And then, you know, when I reflected on it, for instance, in my experience, it's not, the challenges aren't within l&d, the challenges are interacting with my stakeholders interacting with my sneeze interacting with my audience. And again, just my personal experience, sometimes, you know, being taken seriously, obviously, attend to not be afraid to laugh and things like that. And sometimes, especially when I've worked around highly technical experts, right. And audiences, I, for instance, me feel the need to really bring that back quite a bit because I'm not taking this seriously. So I do think that there are some challenges that women encounter in the larger work workspace out outside of l&d, but in their role as l&d professionals, and I really was, I really would like the idea of coming together in a space to be able to talk about that.

Luis Malbas  
Right, right. No, it was a really fascinating experience. And I think, you know, I thought you had some great contributions to the overall event. But I think the most importantly, for me, it was just the fact that we're able to gather everyone together and, and just kind of talk about these things. They bring together these topics that that we had presented. And you know, and I see like Tati noram is in the audience now, and Lisa crocket, who were all part of the event. So I wanted to just sort of hear like what you had to say about that one, because that really should be sort of one of my first things whenever I pulled together a group of people to, to put an event together like wondering what their why they are inspired to, to participate in it. And and also, it seems like you're kind of an event geek, too. So I think that's helpful. So what are your plans? Now? What are you doing for your professional development? coming up for 2021? Are you going to any other events? Or were you going to be?

Heather Appell  
I haven't decided to go to any events yet. But I just last last week, the week before I took a storytelling class, specifically around change, right? Like how do you craft stories that really help impact change, and what stories are the best, or the most effective to use in the different phases of change, and people who are in different phases of change. So personally, I'm really taking that on this year, in developing, you know, and developing my stories, developing my ability to use stories to help change. I love

Luis Malbas  
that Heather because I feel like that's kind of what really when I step back and look at this community, the thing that I love about it the most and why I like to do these showcases and talk to people like you is because I want to hear your stories. And I feel like that is what is binding this community together is just the different stories that are available to all of us. And it just helps us connect versus divide us from one another. So I think that is such a great thing. And it's probably something I should do myself, you know, look into like, actually like studying more about story. That's great. Thanks. And yeah, is it something that is a private thing or is it

I think No, I

Heather Appell  
think we contracted I mean it was through work but um, the company is illuminate and based on a book Why don't think the company is based on a book but I have it right here. illuminate by Nancy Duarte and Sanchez, okay. And it even you know the again, my my company's answered it, but it even came with a journal that helps guide through the storytelling and with prompts and things like that with a corporate aim. So I found it really effective.

Luis Malbas  
Oh, there we go. He says, I've got that. Yeah, I think that's the one. That is the one. Fantastic. Thanks, Lisa. Well, Heather, thanks for spending this 30 Minutes with Us answering these questions. Um, I hope to see you around, like, you know, if I have to kind of make a decision about the next live event for to DC probably by the end of next month, because it would probably be spring of 2022 if I put one together, but I still sort of want to see like, how safe it is. And so don't want to jump into anything that that could potentially be be a little problematic. So I don't know. Thank you for all your involvement. Thanks for supporting the community. And everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We've got another one. We're going to be talking to Anya, Anya hard lead person on Thursday, also a member showcase. And also I want to just thank everybody, if you attended last Friday's event, I'm still kind of trying to pull myself together from that one. It was so impactful that my head kind of exploded. So I'm still recovering from from last Friday's event. But thanks, everybody, for attending that. And with that. We'll see everybody next time. Thanks again, Heather. Thank you. Take care everybody. Bye bye.

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