Community Showcase: Deborah Decker

Luis Malbas  
Hello, everybody, welcome to the training learning and development community. Thanks for joining us today. Happy Thursday to you all out there. Yeah, we have another great guest for our member showcase. Deborah Decker, who has actually been gotcha to LDC member pretty much almost from the beginning. I feel like you've been around forever and

Deborah Decker  
been around forever sounds terrible, Luis.

Luis Malbas  
But you actually have you are definitely an experienced learning and development professional.   I mean, heck before TLDC, like I was saying earlier. So, I even remember, I even remember seeing your name at Guild events, you know, because I used to print badges and manage all that stuff. And I just remember you from back then so. So it's great to have you on the broadcast. And I'm, I feel really honored to be able to ask you a bunch of questions about your career and to talk about like, what you're up to and, and, and what's going on with Deborah Decker. So yeah, let's

Deborah Decker  
just keep inviting me. I'm excited. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
absolutely. So um, you started out you were an ESL Spanish teacher, right. An educator,

Deborah Decker  
not ESL. But yeah, second language. Okay,

Luis Malbas  
Spanish teacher. Um, and so how did your journey into l&d Begin?

Deborah Decker  
Um, well, that is we could be here for hours going through that. But so yeah, I was teaching high school, Spanish and Latin. Actually, it was also teaching Latin, believe it or not, wow. And my transition actually happened because I had kids. And having two kids in daycare costs more than my teacher salary. So I ended up being a stay at home mom for a couple of years, and quickly realized I was going to go crazy if I didn't find something to do. So I started teaching online for a college in Portland, Oregon, while I was living in Huntington Beach, California. And then my students were from all over the US. And we even had some international students. So that was an interesting, that was my introduction into remote learning online. Yes. And that was back in the early 2000s. So I like to joke that I kind of grew up with elearning, in the sense of as it was growing, so was I and I was always looking for new ways to make it into lead. When when I was teaching, the very first semester I was teaching, we uploaded the textbook, people would go online and read the textbook, then there was a quiz online, then there was like a Dropbox where they would put in their assignments, I would get the assignments, read them, put a grade on it, turn it back, we had like a weekly online discussion, which was a chat room. And that was it, it was dial up internet. So you can imagine how clunky that was. But I was always looking for ways to make it more engaging. And and I was finding that I, I enjoyed the actual instructional design part of it more than I actually enjoyed facilitating the classes. So I went back and got a master's degree I'd gotten, I had already gone for a master's degree in Spanish. So this one was specifically in instructional technology through National University. And so this is where the story gets funny is. So the degree that I was doing was a master's of science. And so in addition to our thesis, we had to do a capstone project and a capstone project was to design an online class was, you know, different components, different learning objects, things like that. So it was kind of a portfolio, but I did it, you know, throughout my, my degree. And towards the end of my degree, one of my professors, my favorite professor, basically was telling us, you know, showing us different tools like storyline and captivate

and, you know, saying, basically, start researching these tools. And as you're designing, as you're looking to designing your, your capstone project, go online, look at instructional design jobs, see what they're asking for and choose those tools, you know, to create your your online class. And so I went online, and some that, you know, I think, I don't know if it was indeed.com. I don't know where I was, but they said upload your resume so that you'll get better matches for jobs. So I put together a resume, uploaded it. And within 24 hours, I had calls from three different recruiters saying, Can you interview for this job? Like, I'm teaching, I'm raising, I'm a single mom raising three kids, and I'm trying to finish a master's degree, no, I do not need a job. And one of the recruiters actually talked to me into, he said, You know what, you're not going to get the job, don't worry about it, just if I could, you know, throw your resume into the hat, we have three other resumes. And, you know, I just want to have, you know, something for them to compare to. And I'm like, Sure. And I was actually finishing up that semester of teaching. And then I had three more months, till I was done with my, my master's degree. So I'm like, I just got to get through this semester, and then finish the degree. And then I can, and I was planning to actually to go back into education. As an instructional technologist, I wasn't even looking at corporate. So it wasn't even something, you know, that I was necessarily considering. And so the guy, this recruiter who had my resume, called me back, about a week later, he said, you know, they'd like to interview you. Because don't worry, you're not going to get the job. But if they could just interview you, that would be great. And it's, you know, it's four days a week, it was like, 32 hours, four days a week, and you work at home and $45 an hour. And, you know, can you just just interview? And I'm like, Okay, fine, I'll go to the interview. So I had to go into the office, I interviewed the hiring manager, and I really hit it off, I enjoyed it. And if I asked you about, I'm not going to get this job. But you know, I left didn't think anything of it an hour after I got home base, he said, they want to offer you the job, it was a temp job, because they want to offer you the job. It's a three month job. I'm like, Wow, I'm like, Okay, why not? You know, I'll get experience, put it on my resume is part time, you know, 32 hours is not totally part time. But you know, I still have Friday, Saturday Sundays for for school. So anyway, that was how I, that three month temporary role turned into a full time role with that company. And that was how I ended up being the corporate instructional designer. Wow.

Luis Malbas  
And so how long was it? Was this like, 10 years

ago? or 10 years ago?

Deborah Decker  
Yeah.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. Okay. That's amazing. You know, I'm just curious, why did he keep saying that you wouldn't get the job? He?

Deborah Decker  
I think because he knew I didn't want him to, you know, I think and honestly, I think my whole resume was teaching. Right? And it's like, you know, these are there were other people who were actual, you know, they had done instructional design, or I don't know, I don't know, even who I was going up against. But yeah, but they did not know the tools as well as I did. They were specifically looking for someone who was an expert in Captivate. And those were a lot of the questions that I got, and how would you build this interaction? And how would you do this? And I told him, and I showed them something I built in Captivate. So and then the other big part of it is just that background in knowing how people learn. So I think, having both I don't know if anyone else had both of those skills. I think it was either they had the technology and not the learning theory, or the learning theory, but not the technology. I don't know. But I don't know why he I think he would just try to talk me into it.

Luis Malbas  
Right, right. Interesting. Very interesting. Kim has a great question here. She's asking are learning objects still a thing? Seems like you don't hear that term much these days. But that could just mean that it's assumed. She's just interested to hear what you think.

Deborah Decker  
I think we just don't use the term anymore. Even like the term multimedia. I feel like that sounds really old. But we still do it. I would say I still use I don't call them learning objects, but I still use them. I know, like, if I've I have designed courses in E commerce, that's another good one. I have design courses in rise that have. And it's been a couple of years since I've worked with rise, or you know, over a year since I've worked with fries, but I'm gonna say it wrong, I think but what do they call them, the blocks that you have that you're able to put in there where you can have like a storyline block that's interactive, you can have a beyond explainer video in there. And so within rise, you can have all these different components. They don't call them learning objects. But technically, that's what they would have been called 10 years ago.

Luis Malbas  
You know, I'm curious, and this isn't in our list or anything, but it seems like you're proficient in ELearning Development. Like how much of your how much of your skill set? Like how much did you focus on that coming up as an insert instructional designer? Was that going to be your primary thing just because now you're like a senior manager. You know, and I'm, I'm not sure if you do any ELearning Development at all now, but no, but when I mean, was that was that what your primary focus was? Started?

Deborah Decker  
Aye. Aye. Any kind of technology To me that I have always loved technology, I, you know, I think I was 16 years old when I got my first Apple to see computer and, like, just loved it didn't really even do much. And I, you know, just loved, you know, I love anything technology and, you know, games, online games, things like that. So that was really what I was interested in most was delivering, you know, back then we didn't call learning experience, but that's what they were, you know, an online learning experience. So elearning and developing and things like that. So, yeah, that's, I love doing that.

Luis Malbas  
Has your roles over the years typically been like remote? Or, you know, where are you at Anthem where you, you know, just clocking into an office most for the most part, or have you mostly been

Deborah Decker  
so at Anthem, I actually had two different roles. One, my my first role at Anthem was as a learning program manager, and I did have to be in the office a lot of the time for that role. Fortunately, the office was like, 10 miles away from my house, wasn't it? You know, it wasn't a big commute. But then when I transitioned into the lead learning consultant for anthem enterprise, my entire team was on the East Coast, and they were all in different. So we were all in different states anthem, the large corporate entity is very much remote workforce.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. So after, you know, all these different experiences within learning and development, you guys having a background in, in in in elearning. And now as a leader in in l&d, what has been kind of your favorite part? Or what are the things that you really like about it?

Deborah Decker  
Um, I pretty much like everything about it. So when I was doing elearning, I really enjoyed that, I would say, probably my least favorite thing is facilitating. But I mean, it's not that I don't enjoy it. I just much more prefer being in my cave, designing and developing, rather than like, being out in front and delivering it and, but, but I do that still, even in the role I have now, I still facilitate, especially leadership programs and things like that.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. So that that is actually one of my questions like, What is something that you do for work? That is, that is challenging for you? So would that be in facilitation?

Deborah Decker  
I would not say facilitation is challenging. I mean, I've been doing it for 30 years, like, as a teacher, you stand up in front of a classroom, right? You know, I've been doing facilitation in some form or another for a long time. I wouldn't say it's challenging, I would just say it's not my thing. And I've been told I'm good at it. So I'm glad of that. But if I never had to facilitate again, I wouldn't miss it, I would say that the most challenging thing, and it is something I enjoy is the strategy part that exists when you're in leadership. I we just did like I started with, um, with la care now, la care health plan, which is a, it's the nation's largest public health plan. And we are every county in California in the state of California has its own public health plan that serves Medicare and Medicaid. Well, and we are the largest one, we have 2.5 million members, so that that is largest in the US. And I started in November, and my predecessor had been gone for, I think they left in February. So that role had been vacant for a long time, my team had been kind of just keeping things going for a while. And so there was really no strategy. So we really had to, you know, I, you know, in within my first 90 days, which actually next week will be the end of my first 90 days we've developed our, our learning experience strategy that's aligned with the organization's three year strategy created our three year roadmap of what we want to implement. And I would say that's challenging because you have to get buy in from the team that's going to have to help you execute it. You have to get buy in from your leadership to make sure you're aligned with where they're going. But it's also fun, because you kind of get to, to design your own future. So I would say it's challenging, but it's exciting.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. And you know, and that is a very different thing than just doing ELearning Development. I mean, were there

Deborah Decker  
any would say I would say, this is where a lot of organizations get it wrong, because they'll put someone with a business degree in that role to design that business. Adeje, but that person really doesn't understand the roles on the team and what skills they're, they'll need to execute it. Like, you know, I've, in my role, I've worked with LMS for a long time. And previously, I worked for Southern California Edison, as a senior instructional designer and SuccessFactors was our LMS. And so I created, you know, I knew how to I knew my way around SuccessFactors. And one of my one of the LMS, team members, we were talking about something and he's like, Well, you're not going to understand this, but blah, blah. I'm like, oh, yeah, well, how about this or that? You know, and we had this disease, like, oh, my gosh, you know, LMS is like you don't have you know, your way around success factors. They it was they were just blown away. And so I think you you do, you can't just, you know, go from that instructional design level without really understanding the business strategy. You do need that that strategic mindset. But putting someone with an MBA in this role is, I think one of the worst things that companies do to themselves.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, that is really fascinating. So with your background, what becoming a leader, what particular skill sets have you had to work on or develop to be successful in the role you have now?

Deborah Decker  
PowerPoint? Seriously, I have to do a lot of presentations, and presenting to leadership is a very different skill. Hey, Carol, from SCE sorry, about that. We work together at Southern California Edison, it's good to see people i It's good to see some familiar faces, I see Trish and Erin out there. This is my Southern California neighbor. And we've never actually met in person just on these. So. So skill set for when you want to get stuff done. In the corporate environment, it's very different from delivering a learning experience or a training module, it's PowerPoint is not a training or teaching tool, in my opinion, it's like one of the worst things you can do to learners is having a very boring PowerPoint. However, when you're trying to get buy in from senior leaders, you need a PowerPoint, and it has to be boring, and it has to be very direct and straightforward and plain. And I actually have to do a presentation this afternoon to our CEO cabinet to get their buy in on a leadership program that we are developing and ask them for money. So I have a four slide PowerPoint, that clearly outlines the goals of the program, who the audience is, like, it's very, it's almost more like designing more like putting together your, your learning design, or your learning strategy, rather than actually. A training. So that's, that's a big skill I've had to learn is how to and different chiefs are different in how you know what type of information how they want to present to them. And so really getting to know the leaders in your organization, you know, do they want just a high level, you know, get, you know, come in, explain it to me quick, and then get out? Or do they? Are they gonna take a deep dive and so, right. Wow, it's Kim. That is a skill from instructional design that that goes everywhere. Know your audience.

Luis Malbas  
It's true. So I mean, do you ever miss actually going back and just doing straight like instructional design, and it seems like your your days now are more filled with strategy and dealing with,

Deborah Decker  
I still actually, I don't get involved in the eLearning side of it. The tools however, we some of the projects that we have going on right now, we are completely redesigning our new employee orientation, and our new manager orientation, which are each two day experiences. And so I am working with the team to help design those. Like most companies that were not remote prior to the pandemic, we were all in the office. And so all of our training, I wasn't because I wasn't there, but they were all in the office, delivering training in person for new hires and new managers. And when the pandemic hit, basically, the transition to online to WebEx was we're just gonna take what we're doing in the classroom, and we're gonna do it in WebEx training, and nobody's on camera. And it's, it's, it's not great. But it was kind of like, well, we're only going to be able to office three months, and that but got extended another three months, and that got extended another three months. And so here we are, almost two years later, and we're still doing this same thing and when I started, they were like, Yeah, well, it's only for three more months, because we're going to be back in the office in January. And it's January, we're not back in the office. And we're actually, they finally made a decision to stop doing this three month thing. And we're not going back to the office until September of 2024. So now we can actually design for a remote audience and and truly, you know, put thought into how to engage the audience remotely, rather than just take what we did in the classroom and try and make it work in WebEx.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. Fascinating. And that's a lot to think about. So, um, here's the big question. This is this is the one that everyone is always like, asking me like to collect these from from the folks that I interview. But what are some things that you wish you had known when you would first started out in your career and l&d?

Deborah Decker  
Started out were like teaching or started out as an instructional designer, designer, as an instructional designer. Um, you know, I don't know that there's anything I could have known or could have done differently. Like I said, it wasn't my plan to go into corporate learning and development. I was getting a master's degree to go into education as a learning technologist, technologist. Yes, Damian 2024. Can I answer Davey's question because it is dealing with this whole? How long do we stay remote? Isn't that long away? What do you think about it, and here's my company is trying to figure out so we we are, as I mentioned, we're in Los Angeles County period, and you have to live in Los Angeles County, or the area, I actually live in San Bernardino County, but you have to live in the Los Angeles area close enough to be able to come into the office within 24 hour notice if you need to. So we can't hire people from Ohio or, you know, some other states that were we'd have to fly them in. So what they are working on right now is a remote work strategy, some teams are going to stay remote, some teams will have to go into the office. And so they're, they're number one trying to figure out that strategy. Number two, they already had a plan in 2023. To consolidate offices, we have two large buildings in downtown LA and they are consolidating those get rid of getting rid of one and the other one, they are going to do major upgrades. So we were gonna get kicked out of the office in 2023. Anyway, so even if they brought us back now, six months later, we're going to get kicked out. So that's why 2024 The new office will be ready. They will. People who are going to be remote will stay remote people who are going to be in the office will actually have an office space. So that's why that that was. That's why that particular date. So you were asking me, Louis? Why? Like what? Oh, no.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, anything that you would know. And mostly that question is kind of more tips for like, you know, people that are just starting out their careers instructional designers, like if there are any shortcuts that you would you know, or deceit? Yeah,

Deborah Decker  
I would say, you know, and this is something I've always done anyway, is, you know, invest in your own learning, find a mentor, if you can, but, but definitely keep learning, keep growing. Don't be, you know, if you feel like you're in a boring role, learn what it still learn whatever you can from it, because you never know when something else is going to come up. And you know, you need to be ready for that. Take the stretch assignments take, you know, things that seem to be difficult. My my, interestingly, I mentioned, you know, PowerPoint is not my favorite thing. But my last role at Anthem, being the lead learning consultant, I, that was where I really learned PowerPoint as a presentation tool, and how to present to CEOs and chief medical officers. And so, even though it was not my favorite role, and I quickly learned consulting isn't for me, I learned a skill that's critical to what I'm doing now. So don't discount anything. Like don't say, oh, no, that's below me. That's beneath me. That's not what I'm interested in. Because you never know when you're going to need that for a different role. Further down the line.

Luis Malbas  
And I do like you mentioning that there are no shortcuts because I think that's yeah, there are a lot of people that are really looking for shortcuts. And it's, it's, I mean, I think every journey right now is sort of unique for you know, for people and just different situations. And, but I think consistently that is one of the things that everyone has to remember is that, you know, there aren't really any shortcuts. So, um, and I know so we mentioned earlier, when we're in the green When we talked about how you were in a broadcast a couple of years ago with Kristin Hayden safty here, you did like a, she interviewed you about a change management program that, that, that you had worked on? Is there, um, can you talk about any other projects, maybe that you're particularly happy with that, you know, that you can describe and sort of share with us so we can get to know like, the kind of work that you do. I don't know if I have a particular

Deborah Decker  
favorite. I think with, with every project I take on, I try to learn something new. So whether that whether I'm designing in, you know, using storyline, you know, trying to learn something, do a different interaction that I haven't done before, or, you know, that that fits with the the, the learning theory behind that, and the learning, you know, the learning design, but I cannot think offhand of a project that, that I'm, I am super excited about redesign our redesign right now for our new employee orientation. And redesigning it, specifically with virtual in mind. And some of the tools we're exploring. We are. So I have given my my instructional designers free rein go out and explore see what other people are doing. What tools, you know, what tools do you guys want? And the first thing that came up, we want Miro, but they wouldn't ever give it to us. Can we get Nero? Oh, I we are working on getting Miro got the budget approved. I just have to get it through it. Yeah, as you're building relationships, it makes sure that you know someone in it who can get you pass all those it hurdles. But so that's that's our, that's our hurdle right now. But they want. Kim Kim has had that experience as well. But so I think, I think this new employee orientation, our goal is that it's like our flagship, you know, it's people's introduction to our company and their future development. And so I'm excited to see what comes of it.

Luis Malbas  
Love it. Love it. So Deborah, how do you stay on top of your professional development? Well,

Deborah Decker  
things like this, the community I, you know, I, if you want to talk about shortcuts, this is the shortcut is I learned more, you know, participating in, in this community, through just hearing what other people were doing hearing about their journeys. This was more of a fast track to learning and development than my master's degree was because it's the practical, it's the nuts and bolts, and you really hear you really get great ideas, you hear about great tools, and you know, what people are doing. So I think that's huge is participating in a community where you can learn from other people. I am still in school, I, I think I'm just going to always be in school. But that's my thing is formal learning. I'm working on my doctoral dissertation on using the X API for and Learning Analytics to measure impact in learning and development. You know, in corporate learning development. So I've been working. I hear a lot of X API fans out there. Yeah, it's definitely the future, definitely where we're headed. So I've been working on my, my doctorate for the past couple of years. As soon as I get that done, I definitely want to take a break. And I keep telling people, if I mentioned going back to school again, just just shoot me, but I know it's gonna happen. I know it's gonna happen. So

Luis Malbas  
yeah, so you're just constantly learning. That's great to hear. Yeah. Were you um, were you started doing the XA API stuff? Pepperdine. Okay.

Deborah Decker  
We're done University.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. So that's nearby.

Deborah Decker  
Yeah. Yeah, that's remote, too. It was a remote program. So

Luis Malbas  
Excellent. Excellent. Okay. And so last question. If you weren't a learning and development professional, what do you think you'd be?

Deborah Decker  
I love this question. Because I tell people this all the time. I would be an international spy. Okay, because the skill sets there's so much crossover in this skill sets like people are always asking me how did you figure that out? How did you find that I'm like, you just got to ask the right questions and you got to dig and you got to look under rocks. And Joe Joe is gonna join me as an international spy. So be the end six side of it. But you know, a lot of our role is you know, you have to you have to a know know who the important people are that you need to get information from and then being able to ask the right questions. And sometimes it does feel like being a spy, you know, like just, you know, finding information that is not easy to find. So I always joke that our role is very similar.

Luis Malbas  
You know, and you have the technical stuff too, because you're like, kind of, you know, you seem a little nerdy, you know, you have like, the gadget stuff, and, you know, you know, the tools and then as well as being able to deal with presentations to CEOs and CMOS, so, yeah, I get it. That's right. That's awesome. Deborah. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your background. I love it. If you ever I mean, you are you have so much experience. You know, you've definitely been around the community and and know a lot. So, you know, folks if you want to, is it okay, Deborah, if I put your LinkedIn profile

in?

Deborah Decker  
I am pretty active on LinkedIn.

Luis Malbas  
Dropping that in. Alright, so connect with Deborah, um, you know, she would be great to have in your l&d network. And I just also want to remind everybody that tomorrow we're having another great event writing for instructional design. Gosh, Kim is in the audience right now. I can't say enough about this one I'm really excited about it is somebody you know, who has an English degree and definitely needs to know better how to write just on a regular basis. That one's going to be a good one for tomorrow starts at 7am Pacific 10am. Eastern, and there will be recordings for it. So Joe, you know, maybe you can check those out later. And with that, I'm going to close out the session. Deborah, thank thanks again so much. And I'm looking forward hopefully, one of these days around live events again, I can we can we can we can see each other face to face. Alright, take care. All right. Bye, everybody.

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