Community Showcase: Deanne Boules

Luis Malbas  
Hello, everybody, welcome to the training learning and development community. Happy Thursday to all of you at least here in the United States. It's Thursday. There's no, there's no day differences there. DeAnn between us and you, yeah, we're,

Deanne Boules  
we're Friday morning. So we're day ahead.

Luis Malbas  
I'm just like typical American, I'm just completely clueless about that stuff. But I really appreciate you taking the time out to have a chat with us. We're doing a member showcase and and really what this is, what these episodes are about, is I like to reach out and just talk to people that are part of the community that are part of the learning and development effort and just get to know them, and maybe just establish a little bit of safety between relationships. I've been reading your profile over and over again, like, wow, safety culture. So it's, it's this is this is my effort to do that, and just allowing people to kind of get to know who you are and what you do. And so 30 minutes, and, yeah, nine questions. I'm just gonna get into it. Because Do you have like a really, really fascinating background, I've gone over your profile on LinkedIn a couple of times, I'm like, look at this. She has done a bunch of stuff. So let's just start a little bit. Um, this is something really, really basic. I know that l&d Learning and Development isn't the only thing you do you do a bunch of stuff. But where did your journey with that begin?

Deanne Boules  
So my journey with l&d actually started probably about probably about seven or eight years ago. And it was really interesting, because obviously, like you said, I've got a really diverse background, actually, you know, I started working, you know, my first job was in the police as a police officer, and then kind of went into workplace health and safety, and then started the business. And when I first started the business, it was predominantly around work, health and safety and HR consulting. And I actually was working with a client who asked me to build their global leadership development program. And my response to her was he No, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. It's not my skill set. And, and she kind of come back to me and said, but you know what, I think you could do it. And so I always have Richard Branson's quote in the back of my head that if an amazing opportunity comes up, and you're not sure if you can do it, say yes, and then learn how to do it later on. So blindly, I went, absolutely, I'll do this for you. And literally had no idea what I was doing. And But anyway, went away and started then learning about learning and development, learning about how to build leadership development programs. And together with this client, we built this awesome global leadership development program. And, and I loved it. And I think that's where I found my passion for learning and development and have, you know, it's always been, I guess, part of my life since then. So that's probably when I really, really started. So nice. And

Luis Malbas  
so was that before, after you, you founded in sync workplace solutions. So

Deanne Boules  
that was after so I'd actually this this client had engaged me to do some HR consulting for her so and it was whilst doing that consulting, but then, you know, we worked really well together. And she then asked me to develop the leadership program. So that was part of the business. And, and it's really interesting, because I hated school, I was a really horrible student at school, and thought I hated learning. And but you know, since then, I've actually discovered that I didn't hate learning, I actually loved learning, it was just school didn't work for me in terms of how my brain works as well. And that's where, you know, I guess now, with my learning and development journey, it's very much about making sure things actually fit with how people like to learn as well. So I've become a lifelong learner. So learning and development for me really is my passion now, and that's where I am. It's kind of my happy place.

Luis Malbas  
Right? Very nice. Now I saw on your profile in different places that you consider yourself like a disrupter. And somebody that really likes to think out of the box. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that, like, Whoa, you know, I, I and I asked, I'm curious, because I feel like, in a lot of ways, I'm the same way I do like to, I'd like to break the rules or just change the game. But tell me tell me a little bit about that, you know?

Deanne Boules  
Yeah, look, I guess, and again, this probably goes back it was so funny. I was talking to someone a few weeks ago, and they said to me, tell me your story. And I said, I don't have a story. And I said, You know, I don't have I haven't been through some significant event or I haven't had this, you know, awesome, you know, celebrity career or something. And anyway, we started talking about different things, and it's really amazing. Everyone actually has a story and when we started talking, she started pulling my story out. When I was at school, I remember a report card. Why Said actually they all used to say DNS talkative, makes minimal effort and is disruptive in class. And, and it's really quite funny because I used to look at them. And I think my parents used to cringe because I had an older sister who was like the model student. And so I think for them, it was just like, Oh my gosh, she's just so disruptive, she makes minimal effort. Now I look at it and think that's what I do. Now, I love disrupting the way that we do things. Because I think that's where we get the magic. And that's where people can actually learn. So from a learning and development perspective, I think, you know, so many times, even when I was in operational roles, before I obviously started the business, I would sit in training programs that were, you know, death by PowerPoint, or it was you're being forced to learn a certain way, and it didn't stick. And so, you know, when I went on to study psychology and neuroscience, and learn all about how we actually taking information and how we get that information to actually land and stick, you know, we need to disrupt what we do we need to do things differently. So it's everything I do now I look at it and go right, you know, this is the in the box way, but how can we do this to make sure it fits with these people or this group of people this individual? So I do, I think, you know, certainly in even conversations I have with, you know, leaders in organizations and, and even in learning development teams, sometimes they'll have this mindset of what they want to do. And I always try and pull it apart and go, Well, why do you need to do this? Why do you need to do that? I always have a lot of people coming to me going, Hey, we need a safety leadership program. And my first question is, do you have a leadership program? And they're like, Yeah, absolutely. We do. Well, why do you need a separate Safety Leadership Program? leadership's leadership. So hey, let's see what we can do. So many people in the safety industry cringe, because they go, Well, why would you do that you could make an absolute fortune selling and Safety Leadership Program to someone. But again, why have always separate things so I guess I kind of look at it think I'm probably a disruptor in the way I do things, but also a disruptor in the way that I don't do things the way that people are expected to be done or go down that one path, it's always about looking at, what's the best way we can do this for the people that we're actually trying to bring on the journey as well. Right?

Luis Malbas  
No, I love it. And it does feel like especially in this time period, that that, that thinking outside of the box is really really important, you know, because things have changed and the rules have changed and to be able to get certain things done, you have to like you know, just look at things in a different way it feels like so does that relate to yourself? Describe you You call yourself a chief enabling officer

Deanne Boules  
Yes, yeah. And it's, again I think you know, so many times and I take that as you know, I'm obviously the CEO of my business and but I don't consider myself a chief executive officer, I'm an enabler so my my role and my purpose and my mission is to enable people to unlock their full potential and you know, give them that competitive edge. So whether it's a business or an individual, whatever I do, I see my role is enabling them so so that's why I've changed my title to Chief enabling officer instead of you know, Chief Executive Officer and I think it fits with you know, even if I look at organizations i think you know, those leaders leaders in the organization's are the enablers, they're the ones that are actually giving their people that opportunity to actually grow and develop and learn. So I'd actually love to see that changing titles everywhere, and instead of having chief executive officers have chief enabling officers, I saw one the other day and it was the chief happiness officer and that was the well being person like that's pretty cool title as well. So I think again, people starting to look at how can we disrupt and do things differently to make them more human centered as well which is some you know, I think that's that's probably one of the great things that's come out of you know, the past two years was I've been to pretty shit years. Excuse the language but it's, you know, one of the things I think we've come back to, you know, someone said, nice backdrop Deana I don't know if you've actually seen my dogs running in and out. But I think you know, one of the things we've kind of accepted in the last few years with working from home is everyone's human, like, you know, we have these things going on in our lives. We have dogs, we have kids, we have family we have I learned early on in and we're in lockdown still here in Sydney, but I learned early on last year, don't do zoom calls on a Tuesday morning when it's the garbage collection day, because all you can eat was bottles like clanging as though we're emptying the garbage trucks. So it's about you know, just accepting people for who we are and giving them the tools and the environment to actually grow as well. So that's kind of where the chief enabling officer come from.

Luis Malbas  
I love it. And you know, I mean, I sort of feel a little embarrassed that I just got your LinkedIn profile. Next thing, but I can't help but ask. You also work as an organizational psychologist and behavioral trainer. Yes, yeah. What is can you Explain that piece of it, you know, in relation to like everything else that you're doing?

Deanne Boules  
Yes, sorry, it actually it's a project I'm actually working on at the moment for one of our government organisations. And they actually came to me because they want to, really, I guess, see themselves they see themselves as being a leader and a bit of a disruptor in the industry as well in terms of building that psychologically safe workplace. So which is again, one of my passions as well. So my role there is, is actually having a look from that side, you know, that organizational psychology perspective, and then actually going through and then developing the training programs for their people to actually enable them again, to to do what they need to do. So with that project, we're kind of going through, and it's all about building a psychologically safe work environment. So, you know, we're looking at it from a psychology perspective, from a neuroscience perspective, but also that human centered approach to because we know that if people feel comfortable and valued and belonged, you know, have that sense of belonging, they will thrive, and if they thrive, then organizations thrive as well.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. So how much is your as your job changed in the last two years since the pandemic? Ah,

Deanne Boules  
look, it's it's changed a lot. I think like most obviously, most people and organizations have probably experienced the same thing. I think last year, when we first when it all first happened, I was ready to jump on a plane to go to New Zealand The next morning, on the Monday morning to deliver training over there for a week and bought a shot, you know, sort of that night and everything, sort of, I think, from a training perspective, everything really stopped for that first couple of weeks, while everyone was training, you know, I think most of us thought it was only going to last for a very short period of time, then we'd be over it and you'll be fine. So I know a lot of my clients kind of, you know, just stopped with training, it was just, you know, what do we need to do? So my business kind of pivoted, then back to really, it was around that HR on work, health and safety consulting, like, how do we keep operating in this global pandemic? What do we need to do? How do we keep our people safe? What does that mean from, you know, so many businesses had to close as well, or scale back their staff. So we went through a period where, you know, business probably tripled in that time, but in the consulting side, and the training actually dropped, so but I think once people realized that this wasn't going away, and it was going to be around for a while, then we started training, so everything pivoted then to online training. So you know, we're doing lots of virtual training, you know, things like, you know, lunch and learns, doing them virtually, shortening train, just really changing the way that we actually did things. And then that's really kind of continued. And I think it's going to be an interesting space moving forward as well, was I think everyone's absolutely I know, here, we're all absolutely hungry for face to face human contact. Again, I think, once sort of borders open again. And once we can start traveling, again, training face to face, we'll come back a little bit, but I think technology wise, people have realized that they can do a lot via zoom teams, all of those different platforms. So I've certainly found I've had lots of opportunities that I would not have had, if it wasn't for COVID, I've delivered lunch and learns Well, they've been lunch and learns to the participants, probably midnight snacks and coffee for me, you know, sessions to the UK into the US and different places where I wouldn't have had that opportunity previously, because people always wanted things done face to face. Whereas, you know, I think COVID in the lockdown has actually expanded people's sort of thoughts and the way they look at things, and it's really given us a lot of opportunities. I'm here in Australia to to, you know, deliver programs and training to the world, which has been fantastic. So it's some good to come out of it.

Luis Malbas  
That so that that aspect of psycho psychological safety has that has now that so many of us have moved to remote learning environments. Yes. Have you as your sort of approach to all that had to change significantly are still the same kinds of problems? Or are they very different?

Deanne Boules  
Still the same kinds of problems? somewhat different as well, like you know, and I know we chatted just before we went live about how, over here in Australia, I think we've found that people are not coping as well. This year as last year with lockdowns we kind of were living life normally again at the start of the year we kind of come out of lockdown everything was back to normal world traveling, we're all doing things with some stops and restrictions in place. And then suddenly we went back into the biggest lockdown we'd had so we've found that even working with clients, there's been a lot of issues around. People are not coping You know, there's a lot of, you know, mental health is coming out as well. People are stressed a lot of people have lost their jobs, those kinds of things. So I think the psychological safety piece is actually highlighted and come to the forefront a lot more because people are now going right? How do we actually make our people feel comfortable, that they can speak out, and they can sort of come up with different ideas about the way we can do things in the workplace was feeling safe as well. And certainly doing it online, is, you know, for some people, it's better, they enjoy it more than that face to face, because it's kind of that barrier between them, they're not sitting in a room with someone, so they do feel a lot more comfortable. actually having those conversations and, and speaking, you know, their truth or their mind as well. So I think it certainly has changed, I think it's about being more mindful of people as well. And it's about picking up on those signs, if you're running a training session, or, you know, whatever it is, it's about just picking up on the subtle little signs, how someone is feeling how they coping. Whereas if you're in a classroom together, it's a lot easier sometimes. So certainly, I think, you know, yes, it has changed. But the focus, the principles, I guess, they're still the same, the fundamentals are still the same, it's just being a lot more mindful of other people, and the impact of being at home or doing whatever they're doing and having to deal with, you know, homeschooling or, or whatever it is that they're dealing with, as well.

Luis Malbas  
Very interesting. So for about in sync, why did you found the company,

Deanne Boules  
so I founded the company, because I work in operational roles. I dealt a lot with consultants. And I was really frustrated, I guess that, you know, there was lots of businesses out there, but they didn't really give me what I wanted, or what I needed. And they were very sick in their sort of structure about how they did things. And it was their way of doing things, and not necessarily that the clients were what the client needed. So at the time, I had a really horrible boss, and I convinced him that he didn't need me anymore. And I got a redundancy package, which was fantastic. So that was my opportunity to start the business. And I remember my husband's sort of, you know, saying to me, he was quite nervous because he's in the police. So you know, used to having that stability. If you know, you work a job, you get your paycheck, and all of that kind of stuff. And I said, Look, I'll give it six months. If it doesn't work, I'll go back to a real job. And nearly all nine and a half years later, it's going strong. So So I started predominantly, because I wanted to give people what they needed, and not what a consultant was just trying to sell them because that's what they wanted. So, and again, I guess it was a bit of that if I look now and think that whole disruptive piece, that was probably my mindset back then as well, I wanted to disrupt that consulting industry, too. And it wasn't about me, it was about my clients. And so that's why to I think early on, when people would say, Hey, can you do this for us? And I'd be like, that is not my skills that I've no idea. I was like, hell yeah, I can do it. And I'd work it out later on. So and it's really grown. And, you know, for me now, I could not imagine going back to doing anything else. It's just, you know, it's it's Yeah, it's been fantastic. It's been an amazing journey. A lot of hard work. I won't lie about that. And people who say owning your own businesses, you know, walk in the pockets, absolutely not. Especially in those early years. When you're everything, you're the marketing, you're the salesperson, you're the facilitator, you're the accountant, you're absolutely everything. So it's a lot of hard work, but it's really, really rewarding as well. And I think for me, seeing people succeed and seeing people thrive, you know, that actually lights my fire and warms my heart, and that's what motivates me.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, and I think that's core to sort of a lot of l&d professionals why they do what they do so um, yeah, that that fits right in Is there anything like if you could go back to yourself like to write before you started the business to give yourself some advice? Is there anything that you would tell yourself? Ah,

Deanne Boules  
yeah, I guess I am a bit of a control freak and a perfectionist and and it's really interesting because I think if I went back then it would be look at what your strengths are play to your strengths and outsource everything else whereas I probably tried to take it all on myself initially and no one did as good a job as what I did. Whereas I've learned now that people do a really good job and you know my way isn't always perfect either so if Yeah, if that was a bit of advice I could give myself was you know have that open mind with things and just you know, trust other people can do it just as good as you are probably better sometimes too. And and let's get into like golf things as well.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. So Deanna, what was the first thing that you outsource?

Deanne Boules  
The first thing I outsource was my accounting, I'm hopeless, I hate doing invoices and bills. And I would find I would get, I get distracted so easily my brain is seriously that's why I love the neuroscience of things too, because you know, when you look at it, my brain I just lose interest in things really quickly. If it doesn't interest me, I have, you know, my attention span is like this big. So something would normally take me, you know, to do the accounts would probably should only take me an hour would take me about six hours because I'd sit there and I'd go, I'd get distracted, and I procrastinate and then so it's that internet shopping or do something else and I don't look for distractions to stop doing it. So that was probably the first thing that I outsourced work that

Luis Malbas  
I love it. No, I'm definitely in the same boat. I'm in the same boat. So how about something that that you do that is really, really hard for you to do? But you need to do it, you won't let go of it.

Deanne Boules  
Yeah, look, something that's really hard for me to do is Gosh, what is it? There's probably a few things. I'm just trying to think that's a really good quick.

Luis Malbas  
No, I know, I like that one. Because it might you know, if especially if there are people that are in sort of maybe following the same kind of journey that you're following. Interested in then. Yeah, that they could be like, Oh, yeah, okay. There's, you know, that is something that I should consider. Yeah, it is a good question. Is there anything that comes to mind at all?

Deanne Boules  
No, there's not at the moment. Yeah, I'm not a natural salesperson. That's probably one of my biggest issues with the business. I'm not an expert salesperson. I'm not one of those people that can go ahead and look at me, you know, so I'm very much around. Yeah, not putting myself out there as well, which I know, you know, potentially you should, but I also find that other people, it's probably something I need to let go of, and get someone else to do that as well, because I know someone else probably did do a lot better job in it than what I do. But yeah, there's Yeah, I'm sure there's lots of things. And I think a lot more things after this call. But

Luis Malbas  
I know for myself, that one is actually like accounting for me. It's like, really, really hard for me to do that one. But yeah, I will try to do it regardless. Yeah. Is there anything right now that you're working on? With your professional development? Anything? Any skills that you're currently trying to build? Yeah, look,

Deanne Boules  
I am. And it's really interesting, I still think back for someone who absolutely hated school, and, and didn't think I was a very good learner, I've actually, I'm a lifelong learner, and I'm always doing something. So at the moment, I'm actually Well, I've just finished doing my Master's in in organizational psychology as well. And I'm also now doing, doing a certification course, in psychological safety. So, again, there's so many different things, and I love doing other people's programs to learn from other people as well, because I think, you know, one of the, the, I guess, one of the pitfalls of when you've got a business too, sometimes you can go down a path of you just do and teach what you know, and teach. I love to do other people's programs, so I can learn from them, I can see how they facilitating, I can see doing as well. So I'm always looking for short courses, different things I can do. You know, I finish a course and even my husband, he'll be like, what are you doing now? It's like, Oh, I'm just signing up for another course. He's like, why do you want to do another course for? But again, I think it's just you have to keep feeding, you know, feeding your brain as well. And just learning and I think, for any learning and development professional out there, I think if you think you can stop learning, and just teach what you already know, is one of the probably the biggest pitfalls, you have to keep learning yourself, you have to keep looking. There's so much research out there and there's people doing some really amazing things. So I spend hours each week just trawling through the internet, seeing what else is new, what's coming up, you know what someone's doing, and I'll jump on to that as well and do those. So, you know, I think I've probably at any given time, I'm usually doing two or three sort of short courses, whilst business and doing everything else. So

Luis Malbas  
yeah, I mean, you write a lot about psychological, psychological safety? And was it just singularly because you had a workplace in? And like a toxic boss? Or were there other elements to like, why you really became an expert at that.

Deanne Boules  
So I think what kind of, I guess, you know, a couple of years ago, we kind of didn't really even talk about it. And I guess, probably the last 18 months or two years, I think it's really you know, we're starting to hear a lot more about it in organizations. I've worked with some amazing organizations, some amazing leaders over the years, I've worked with some really toxic ones as well and, and it really shows in organizations that have that those toxic leaders because the culture is really horrendous too. And people, you see some amazing people who are just trapped there and feel that they can't, you know, they'll have some great ideas that they feel that they can't speak up and they can't sort of, you know, they'll never grow in that organization, but they're kind of trapped there as well until that they can't leave so for me when I started studying psychology in the neuroscience was what probably started my interest in it. Because, you know, if you think about how our brains work, and you know, that whole threat reward process as well, you know, that kind of flows into the psychological safety, because if you're sort of setting up that environment where people feel comfortable that they can, you know, they can speak their mind, they can own up to their mistakes, you know, they can share their ideas, they're going to thrive, and your people thrive, your business is going to thrive as well. So, for me, that's where it came from, to I kind of look at it and go, I guess anything I do, I kind of look at it from a more holistic perspective as well, it's about how can this help the person, but also the business as well. And I think, you know, fundamentally, if we can get our people in that space where they can absolutely shine, the business will find too, so. And the psychological safety piece really comes into that, you know, there's other bits and pieces as well. But I think certainly, if you've got an environment where that people do feel comfortable, they're going to bring their best self to work. And businesses will benefit from that.

Luis Malbas  
Right. And you have, your mission includes like focusing on diversity, and equity and inclusion and accessibility, all of that. So you know, it's that is a really, I mean, that's a huge thing, that the idea of psychological safety so

Deanne Boules  
lightly, and you can see the organizations that do it really well, you know, we benefit so much from that diversity of thought, as well. So, you know, again, an organization where everyone feels comfortable that they can have their say, and will be heard, too. And it's really interesting over the years, like I've spoken to, you know, everyone from, you know, employees on the shop floor through to CEOs and executives, and, and it's really interesting, even how many senior executives feel that they can't speak their mind, because they're worried about what their peers will say, or what they will think as well. So I think, again, that whole piece fits in so nicely together. So yeah, so that's my mission, and my passion.

Luis Malbas  
I love it. Dan, thank you so much for sharing all that with us. I have one more last question with you. If there's one thing that people should know about you, what is it?

Deanne Boules  
Oh, gosh, is one thing that they should not I am, gosh, what is working at one thing, my brain never stops, like, literally, I actually that's one thing I wish I could let go of, and I wish I could relax. I just am constantly, I just never stopped. So if there's one thing people should know about me, it's that I literally never stop. I'm constantly sort of on the move. constantly looking at the way I can change things and do things. And just yet, I am who I am. So you know. I will always say what I think as well, which might be career limiting sometimes as well. But I will absolutely always say what I think and how I feel too. And actually one thing as well is that I will never do anything doesn't sit with my values. So I've actually walked away from clients and opportunities in the past as well, because they didn't sit with my values. And I think I hold that very, very dearly and close to my heart that I'm not in this to make money. It's about making life better for people. And it's about knowing that I've done all I can to actually help people, individuals and organizations. And if I feel I mean an organization that's not i'm not helping, I'm not contributing, or I'm not adding value, I will walk away from it.

Luis Malbas  
I love it. Oh, Dan, you're so great to talk to you. What a wonderful addition to our community. I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to chat. Really appreciate your time. And I'm looking forward to hopefully like talking to you at some point. Again, I would love to explore more about your mission. I mean, it's just it's so interesting, and especially from an l&d perspective, there's so much there. So I might be hitting you up later.

Deanne Boules  
No problem at all. Thank you so much, and great to talk to you too. And I'm looking forward to, you know, obviously contributing more to the community and meeting the other members in the community as well. So yeah, it's such an awesome, inclusive community as well, where we can all share our learnings to, to help one another and support one another. So if I can help anyone in any way, please just reach out. So yeah,

Luis Malbas  
absolutely. Well, we are I am planning a DI event hopefully within before the end of the year. In fact, I'm having a planning meeting on Monday. So I think you might hear from me later. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Dan, thank you so much. Appreciate you spending your morning with us. And with that, I'm going to wrap it up. Monday I am having like I was saying everybody on Monday I am going to do a D bike sort of planning meetup. It's open to everybody. Even though there is like a group of advisory folks that are involved with that one. It's going to be open to everyone just because I want to discuss what it means for the community. The di initiative that I want to build in is actually just a lot bigger than just an event. So we're gonna be working on that on Monday. lots more videos coming up. And with that, Dan, thanks a lot. Have a great weekend and I will speak All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody.

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