Community Showcase: Danielle Gines

Danielle Gines  
If people don't get it on the first try,

Luis Malbas  
we had this one scheduled before. And actually, I think I have a note in the chat about that we Oh, no, I raced it last night. We had one earlier scheduled, but then I guess I don't know if any of you out there experienced it, but AWS had like a major server outage. So we couldn't do that first one. But I am glad that we're here today. And yeah, I'm happy just to get started. As most of you probably know, these member showcases are a way for the community to get to know each other. And I would love it. If you connected with Danielle on LinkedIn. I'll go ahead Is it okay, Danielle, if I were your URL to your LinkedIn at There we go. Excellent. All right. So that is in there. And so we have at least 10 questions for you. We talked about your background. Now, Danielle, a little different background, then most of the guests we have on our on these TLD casts, just because Danielle has a background really strong with working with nonprofits. Right. And you were you worked on a farm in Australia. You were in South Africa. You were in Cambodia.

Danielle Gines  
Right. So you've done your research, that's for sure.

Luis Malbas  
Oh, they're on your LinkedIn profile. But just tell us like, how did you get your l&d?

Danielle Gines  
Yeah, so I, I kind of tell people I live the life of never, which is why you never should say never. So my family comes from education, background, principals, teachers, professors. And I said, I would never do that. But I got back in 2009, from working on farms in Australia. And that was the first big kind of recession for my generation at least. And I was like, I need a job. And my mom was like, Well, do you have a bachelor's in English? And we need an ESL instructor English as a second language? Why don't you just teach for a little bit, and it was at the community college. And I thought, Ah, I don't want to be like, my parents don't want to be like everyone else. But you know, bills gotta be paid. So I started there, ended up staying there for a decade. And then within that decade, I really kind of fell in love with the idea of nonprofits, especially a smaller nonprofits that would encounter that had educational programming, they their curriculum, just really, they, you know, I'm not throwing shade as the kids say, but they felt like, we can do it in house, but they didn't have the tools and it didn't have the resources. And then there's that pressure of being a nonprofit to always have, you know, minimal amount of expenditures, on programming and on internal resources. So I realized, hmm, this is this is something that needs attention. But when I started, you know, I would go to South Africa work with an NGO worked with Cambodia, it was the same kind of problems over and over again. And so it was the executive director, actually, from the harpswell Foundation, the NGO in Cambodia that said, You should do this curriculum work, and learning and development for nonprofits. Like we need someone like that. And I never planned to go out on my own. I never, you know, I was like, it's perfectly fine to just but it was 2020. And things look dicey. And they had just hired me for a contract. And I said, All right, like, let's, let's go all in. So kind of a bit of a, I always think i How did I get here, but it's always there. And I think anyone can probably relate to that. All your experiences come together, and you realize, oh, I've been on my way here the whole time. So,

Luis Malbas  
yeah, no, that's, that's awesome. You know, just real quick, how did you end up like working farms in Australia? I'm just curious.

Danielle Gines  
Okay, so I had been rejected from another program. And this was like, the backup Much to my parents, you know, like horror, probably. But it was like, I had spent a year I'd graduated, I spent a year working and they had this outreach program. They're like, expand your horizons, you know, young, um, you know, post grad people. And I was like, Yeah, I want to go abroad. And I did, but they still had dial up Internet back then. And so it was like, really, really hard. But it was an amazing experience. You know, it was one of those like, extreme things. But yeah, it was just, you know, I was got turned down from somewhere else. And they said, Hey, would you you still open to come here? I'm like, Yeah, I'll go. Wow, what kind of fun. It was. I worked at five different farms. I did. Cattle ranching dairy farm, worked in a wine vineyard. Pulling the grapes not drinking the wine. I feel like that should be mentioned, working with sheep, which was, oddly enough, my favorite, and then working with like a wheat farm and things like that, and just, yeah, super random. But

Luis Malbas  
yeah, only that and so then you made this shift, you know, I guess back into education. Now, I know that the bulk, you know, the vast majority of this community is going to be composed of folks that are in a, you know, their corporate trainers, or they might be in higher ed. What do you think? I mean, as as somebody who works in l&d, like on the nonprofit side of things, what can you say about that part of it that you think is probably different from the others? Yeah,

Danielle Gines  
I think. And it's funny, because I have some higher ed, but not in lnd. And so I think knowing there's a lot of sometimes definitely more funding, especially for the lower like small to medium nonprofits, right. You know, I have some, some colleagues that they work for, like United Way. And so that's a completely different conversation. And so I think it's the producing the first the conversation of this is a value, you know, like, professional development isn't just a requirement or a good idea. Training isn't just a good idea, but it's like, what's your culture of kind of learning, and putting that and integrating that into their budget system, first of all, and also always having to like, wait for the board of directors, to kind of approve decisions and just, you know, there's silos, but then there's also this, like, really big ebb and flow. At least that's been my experience with, like, we all wear many hats. And so how can I make this easier for you? And so you end up wearing many hats for them, that they're able to kind of reach their learning goals and at least bring something that's more than just a couple of presentations? We're going to call this training.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. Okay. So probably super lean systems remain processes, you know, budget, definitely not, you know, something that would be like, you know, say in a corporate environment. But what do you like about it? What is still what is what, what is the appeal to you?

Danielle Gines  
Yeah, that's a great question. I really, like maybe I just like lean systems. I don't I made the joke where I was like, you know, education nonprofit, why not? I really like, first of all, they, there's this great sense. And I'm not saying corporate and higher ed are not appreciative. But to have someone come in, that's not in there every day and be that extra support, and bring creative ideas and tell them, hey, this is these are the trends that's going on? It's like, you end up not being like, I'm a consultant, you don't end up being like that, oh, well, here's the consultant that we pay. You know, you find out about their families, you, there's just like this intimacy, that kind of builds. And this deeper appreciation, you know, you like I had another friend, her consultancy, they invited her to the end of your graduation so they could see the result. So it's just I don't know, I still love that kind of, you're helping but you can still tune back into the direct impact, right. And it's always linked to community, you know, there's always something that we feel like, oh, my gosh, this is exactly what, you know, it may be a different state. But oh, I can see this happening here, too. Yeah, I really like that.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, I think I generally, it seems like if you're working for a nonprofit, that's kind of like, you know, the appeal of it is just knowing that you're having some impact, and less so than, like, you know, in a corporate environment where you know, that you're driving revenue, but you're, you're probably not like getting any of that revenue, regardless. But in a nonprofit, at least, like sort of the your ideals are being, you know, somewhat satisfied by by helping with with building these curriculums. And so speaking of that, like, you probably have to be, you know, a little more creative and engaging with the things that you build. You talk about your process a little bit, and like, what, what, what that looks like, yeah,

Danielle Gines  
so a lot of it's kind of, I was just having this conversation with another consultant. You know, I liked the small to medium because they are lean, and I think that means you get to embrace more creativity. And just kind of revamp what you have. So a lot of them like during the pandemic, or can we use Google Classroom and I'm like, Okay, let's learn about that. You know, what's free to low budget resources, and so using a lot of things. That's going to work for them like PowerPoint, some of them like look, it's very robust. This is what we can do, and things that they never considered before. or, you know, LMSs and things like that. But I really my process, I've, I mean, I don't know if this, you want to get in the weeds, but like having the pre work form and the biggest component is, and this is I think, for all l&d making sure all the stakeholders are in place at the beginning. Because even if we are using the low budget, or kind of, you know, more economical tools, if the right voices aren't there, then it's not going to matter. And so it's really fun being able to engage, say, okay, like, let's talk to the volunteers who have a very different perspective than the program coordinator who has a different perspective than the board than the founder. And so just getting all of those voices through and then having like, my preform sheet and then showing everyone, this isn't, this is where we are, where they're on the same page, or we're all vastly different. And so then, you know, kind of guiding through like, Alright, what's really going to impact your learner's, which, you know, can be, you know, if you're talking to your homeless population and getting more skills, voter registration, working with a group doing that, and so all kinds of things, but yeah, I don't know if that kind of like, know that question. But I could go,

Luis Malbas  
I'm sure I'm sure. But it's not your biggest challenge is that the is getting stakeholder all the organized and getting buy in even more. So budget?

Danielle Gines  
I would say yes. Because once the we have the conversation of value, they're like, Okay, like, we're going to do this where it's really, I just, I get so moved by it. Because once that click happens, like, yes, we need a learning culture, we need a strong curriculum, we need that standard process. And then it's the speed of it. I mean, like, I don't know, I'm sure you've encountered this, you everyone's like, I would like this done in six weeks. And you're like, yeah, all of us would love that done in six weeks. And the reality is, like, double, maybe triple that timeline. And so it's convincing, like, all the stakeholders, we need to pause and we and is everyone represented as everyone here? Yeah, so that's, I mean, I don't know if I can give an example. But one time, I had a founder, who it was for the curriculum in Cambodia, and he's like, you know, there's this emphasis on skin color, you know, so these are young female students, participants in their program. And he's like, I would love it if we had, you know, like Michelle Obama on like, PowerPoint slides, and I'm thinking that's great, except it's not relatable to a 17 year old, come my female, you know, first generation student and so the program coordinator, who is Kumar, she was like, I can't say anything, this is the founder, and he's American male. So there were all these, like, dynamics that come into play, culture, you know, hierarchy and everything. And so, she would send me a message, and then I'd like, Alright, I will be your messenger. And, and it's okay. You know, like, if he wants to argue with me, we're of the same culture. I, you know, don't feel not that it would be disrespectful. But you know, to her, it felt very disrespectful to have a difference of opinion. So, navigating that is definitely, I think, the biggest challenge,

Luis Malbas  
so you must be pretty good at it by now.

Danielle Gines  
I don't know. I still sweat a lot during meetings. But I think I've learned the biggest lesson is the pause. Like when people hear like that silence. They're like, Oh, maybe this wasn't a good idea. You know, and I think that's, you know, probably just meeting culture, especially in the US where we're like, Go Go, go comment this. Yes, that's right. Good, frustrated, virtual. But if you're the one that slows the pace, and you're like, Well, let's think about this. And then there's that pause. I've learned that kind of shifts, people's, you know, openness to Oh, okay. I might rethink that, then.

Luis Malbas  
No, that's important. And I think that probably is worthwhile, in, you know, in corporate and higher ed environments to just being able to step back and and take that pause. Is there anything any other tools that you use? Like, if your curriculum development processes might be a little overwhelming or feeling like it's getting out of hand? Is there anything else that you might be able to any other tips you might be able to offer along that line?

Danielle Gines  
Yeah, I think sometimes, especially when we get through a review cycle, which I feel like a lot of people can relate to and all the voices come in having like a pre set, you know, or a kind of pre selected group of questions. So this is what I want to focus on. And depending on on the type A stakeholder. I mean, this might sound scandalous. But like, if I know the founder really doesn't have decision making power, it's like a courtesy that, you know, a kind courtesy. But he's not going to be delivering, he's not the decision maker. It's just a polite, like, hey, take a look at this. I mean, he gets three questions, you know, is the content make sense? Are there spelling grammar errors? You know, I mean, things where it's not we're gonna be digging up the weeds. Versus like, if it's somebody who's in country, or who's delivering the program, then they get, you know, like, I have a set of five to six questions where it's a bit more about, okay, content focused, where are the mistakes? Where are the gaps? So I've learned to kind of take my stakeholders and get a specific group of questions when it comes to those review cycles. So it just focuses them better, and they feel like they're contributing in a really constructive way. And they are, because we're guiding them that way.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, no, I love it. And I love these situations that are kind of that were you have to you learn the solutions within, because there might be cultural differences, right? So any chance you might have an example of that, if something another, like sort of culture story, that were you learn something really, really important to in a given situation? Because the culture was different?

Danielle Gines  
Yes. Oh, my gosh. So this was probably one of my first kind of steps into NGOs. Just because I spent so much time working with international students in the United States, I started to realize there's this huge breakdown with especially the United States, or even, you know, like, you're not throwing them under the bus. But you know, this idea of we go abroad, and we give aid and, and we don't know the context, we don't know the history, we you know, the day to day, and so I'd gone to Costa Rica, I was working with an NGO. And they were like, We need someone with a background in teaching. And it's connected to tourism. And so, you know, it was basic, like, okay, just teach them the skills to communicate on the job. All right. Except the historical context was that these weren't Costa Ricans, their parents had fled the civil war in Nicaragua, I had came to Costa Rica. And so all the examples were about being Costa Rican all, you know, the cultural insight. And finally, you know, at the point of, they just weren't relating to it. And there was this belief in the NGO that well, we're all in Costa Rica, you know, like, tourists are going to see Costa Ricans. And so finally, one of the students raised her hand, she's bird, Nicaraguan, you know, and that distinction and knowing like, Okay, we you think it's not a big deal, but it is, it's such a big deal to acknowledge someone's roots and history. And so, I mean, I was like, we have to redo this, we have to, I mean, and no one loves to hear those words. I mean, that's probably why l&d is sometimes not the most popular department at times. But if it's not working, if it's not, you know, if it's breaking down motivation, if it's, you know, and you know it so people had stopped coming to these trainings, and all of these things. So I mean, that was, I think the first big moment i and that was, oh my gosh, 2014. And I still think of it like, Okay, who, you know, if you think you have this figured out this group or this history, their story? What are you really missing? Like? Where are the Nicaraguans is what I tell myself, because it can be right in front of you, and you're just blasting away and you know, missing, they're kind of their heartbeat. They're beginning.

Luis Malbas  
Fascinating. So, I guess I'm sort of going back a little bit, but was your experience in Australia, your first time abroad.

Danielle Gines  
So actually, my dad was in the military. And my first time abroad was on Okinawa, Japan, so I was about nine years old. And we were there for about three and a half years. And so that's probably where some seeds got planted. About, you know, being around a different culture. We celebrated American holidays and Japanese holidays. And then it was required in school to go to Japanese culture and Japanese language class twice a week. I can only count to 10 So don't test me on anything. My knowledge has dissipated since then. But But yeah, I mean, just that was probably the first major kind of moment of oh, like, there's something different than me, but not different fad. You know, like, just like, Oh, okay. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
I guess I'm asking because I'm wondering about where you're like your comfort level with this because I mean, as you know, like an l&d professional, a curriculum developer for, say, you know, a Cambodian audience, a Costa Rican audience, how much do you need to know, their language? Or how much do you get into that?

Danielle Gines  
Right? It's a, it's a great question. So I started this, I think it's habits from when I taught ESL, I would deep dive into my students cultures, because there were so many others all these culture is so innate, and we do so many things without thinking. And so like, for example, when I first started teaching in 2009, we had two main populations, Vietnamese, and Mexican, you know, and I'm in North Texas. And then by the time I, at 10 years, I mean, you would have like five to six cultures. But then you would have even if you had Spanish speakers, you'd have the different dialects, you'd have the different pronunciations. There was like a Peruvian student who got an argument with a Mexican student, because their word for saying, you know, this fruit was offensive to this. So I started to learn, okay, you need to do your research to serve them in the best possible way. Because everyone came with a goal. And that's to learn a language, you know, be able to be proficient enough in reading, writing and speaking, so that they can get a better job so they can communicate, you know, in everyday life. So those habits kind of came from there. And I think just you have to be curious. And that has always served me very well. Not nosy, but curious, there is a difference. But yeah, and so when I get a client, even if it's a client that's based in the US, and they serve, you know, their part, you know, their learners, and they serve here in the US, I still, I'm like, Well, what's that region? Like, well, what's the demographics? Like, why is the problem and you go from there?

Luis Malbas  
So do you run into many other like l&d professionals in this space? Like, you know, having your background and working with NGOs and, and nonprofits? Are there a lot of you out there?

Danielle Gines  
That's a great, that's so funny that you phrased it like that, because we call ourselves a unicorn. Right? It's getting we're getting more well known. I can't believe that my first year as a consultant, I found one person, and we were like, Oh, my gosh, and then over time, you do start to meet more. And I'd say, I know, maybe 10, which sounds like really small insurer, but to us, we're like, Whoa, we're a team.

Luis Malbas  
Let's find more of you. So you guys can help each other. We got to do that lately. Yeah. So um, so how about that? Like, how do you stay on top of your professional development in this world of nonprofits and l&d Like, what do you is there? I mean, you probably, I'm sure, just take from everybody else, of course. But is there anything you know, like, or maybe you're building something that has never existed before, like a knowledge base? And, and actually, we're gonna I want to mention that before the end about your your end of summer l&d bundle, but you know, like, is there anything that you do in particular to stay on top of your professional development?

Danielle Gines  
Yeah, it's, I've learned I have to like patchwork quilt it? I do, you know, with l&d, it's, of course, this community has been amazing. And then joining my ATD chapter here, staying a lot of you know, like aI spring has their conferences, staying in touch with l&d and then always like, how can this apply to nonprofit? How can this apply especially to a smaller, medium nonprofit? And then I've got my set of nonprofit associations. What are their biggest challenges? And, you know, you you learn the tips and tricks, like what events are they having? What are like, there's like the smart bulletins that seems to be the theme for some reason, for nonprofits. They give you a rundown on all the biggest problem areas, and you're always going to find training is needed, you know, so just trying to like criss cross things, but at times it does feel like okay, you've got to me not reinvent the wheel, but adjust the wheel, because the car and the tire may not be compatible. So yeah,

Luis Malbas  
nice. How about so um, you'd mentioned ice spring? Yeah. Do you is that because they're friendly to nonprofits? Or why do you use their their tools?

Danielle Gines  
Well, so they have a free option. Let's put the cards on the table and so that one I feel like talent LMS if you have a free or low budget option, nonprofits are going to know about you. Right? And so, but they have a lot of free, like their conferences free and things like that. And so always trying to think what's economical, remove the barriers, you know, to accessing information and accessing tools, and things like that. Okay,

Luis Malbas  
okay, I get it. Yeah. Because though they're, they've been around for a while. And, you know, a lot of people do love their tools. And, and so I was just curious, any other vendors out there that that that you work with are particularly fond of that helped, you know, sort of an a nonprofit person in l&d?

Danielle Gines  
Yeah, I think talent LMS is really good. One. They do have and you can pay per user, which is nice. But one of the things I really love about them is that they have a very extensive multilingual, this sounds like hashtag ad. But this is why when a client comes to me, they have a multilingual, like, I can't even remember if it's, it's definitely over 20. But they also offer trainings in completely and with native speakers who speak Spanish and just, which is so important for certain areas in the United States. And training even in Central and South America. So I love that anything that's like, let's put the cards on the table. Let's make this accessible to multiple audiences. I keep a tab. So if anyone knows any other ones, definitely let me yes, indeed,

Luis Malbas  
actually mentioned Cornerstone has great resources for profit. So that's good to know. Excellent. All right. Well, gosh, this is great. Kim had mentioned I could literally listen to Danielle stories all day long.

Danielle Gines  
wait to hear about the cows and I would just get it.

Luis Malbas  
All right, so we got a couple more here. Just real quick. If you weren't an l&d professional, what do you think you'd be?

Danielle Gines  
Oh, my gosh. I'm sure it would still come down to like teaching in some way. Probably I'm a runner. Not a fast one. I'm a runner. So maybe something like a coach or you know? Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
really? Wow. That's great. Would you still want to involve traveling it? It seems like that's something that you do.

Danielle Gines  
I think so I there's this I you know, Instagram, I follow a bunch of coaches, and they'll they'll go on like international racism. Like one day coach Alicia, I will be.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah, there you go. That is, you know, and that's a great thing for Instagram. Like, if you have a specific interest in you want to be inspired by people. Like, that's a great place to do it. I mean, social media is tough for me, ordinarily, but I do like following certain, you know, musicians and things like that, that keep me inspired. Yeah, so if there's one thing that people should know about you, Danielle, what is it?

Danielle Gines  
Oh, um, oh, my gosh, I should have prepared for this one. Um, let's see. Well, I you might have written this one. But I ran a 50k race 31 miles. But not because I wanted to my friend signed over. He said he was going to sign up. So I did and pay. This isn't a cautionary tale, everyone. And he, he never signed up. There. I was on the start day, and I was like, John, where are you at? And he's like, I just never purchased her. So I'm very loyal. That's what we're gonna learn about this a very good friend. But apparently I need to read the fine print. There's Bobby asking you to know about me blind loyalty?

Luis Malbas  
Probably was asking, Are you still friends? You know,

Danielle Gines  
we'll see at the end of this. If he runs another, if he decides to run one, then I'll forgive him.

Luis Malbas  
Awesome. So tell us a little bit about your Consultancy's end of summer bundle. What is that about?

Danielle Gines  
Yeah, so part of what we were talking about earlier, is getting resources and just eliminating, you know, barriers to access for small to medium nonprofits. I was talking with another consultant and I said wouldn't it be nice if there was just like one place to go to, and we just took the best of everything we had, whether it was a template or a checklist or how to video when it came to learning and development. It could be you know, for the for D Ay ay ay ay b, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility and belonging. So that it doesn't feel like how can I get this? Where can I get it? Who can I trust? Right, those are always the big questions. So we, you know, I've reached out to a bunch of different consultants and said, Do you serve nonprofits? Are you interested in serving nonprofits in this way? And So I had quite a few consultants raise their hand and say, Yeah, I'll share my freebies. So the first few weeks in August, we're going to consolidate and interesting enough, which has been really humbling. A lot of people who are not in nonprofits have said, Yeah, I'm interested in learning more about this. So I love that because learning should be for everyone, we should get excited. I think learning should be fun and definitely accessible. So the first two weeks of August, yeah, we're going to open up and anyone and everyone, even if you're not a nonprofit, if it's something that you need, you know, they can take it, use it, adapt it, and hopefully it brings them some really deep kind of root system, training for whatever, you know, kind of community they serve. That's awesome.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, keep me posted on that. I mean, you know, I would love to be able to, you know, formalize something and just share with the community because it sounds like it's an admirable effort, you know, something that that would benefit from so definitely, like, send it over, and I would be happy to help with, with helping get eyes on it. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, yeah, you know, what, there was an NGO, because I used to, you know, when I was doing conferences with the guild way back when there was regularly worked with, and even devoted part of the conference to, to their efforts. And I'm wondering, I'm going to try to look them up and see, and maybe I can, if they're still around, I can connect you but they were, they're really focused on trying to get training out, you know, to two places in Africa, just all over the world, actually. And, and so maybe I could get that information and get it to you. But, Danielle, so great to talk to you. If you have like, you know, any needs or anything for any of the nonprofits that you're working for. Please hit up CLDC? Because that's kind of like what we're all about is awesome. Definitely. And I'm so glad that you were able to share some time for us. Oh, there you go. Bobby, the elearning for kids was one of them. Yes. Oh, great. Thank you. And there was another one. Bobby, I'm sure. Maybe you were around back then. But I know that when we did our Orlando conferences, we would always have a piece of that event was devoted to them. We'd have a party and stuff and just try to get get get some exposure to them and their efforts. And we used to find a lot of instructional designers that would create content. And you know, for this this particular nonprofit group, so but elearning for kids was definitely one of the other ones. So so that's good to know. Yes, thank you. So yeah, Danielle, thank you so much.

Danielle Gines  
This was a pleasure. Thank you. Yeah, it'd be

Luis Malbas  
great to connect again. And let's see everybody I did get a message from Leanne Morgan about tomorrow, she is not going to be available because she has bronchitis right now. That is no showcase. But we'll be continuing again with next week. And then also I haven't connected with Mallory yet about recordings and things like that for the black and l&d event or the I'm sorry, the learning exchange event that took place last week, I'm sure there are a ton of recordings that the they have to go through. So not sure when that content is going to be out. But But I don't know if Danielle if you were there if you sat in with any of the sessions, but that was quite the event last week was 750 something sessions I think or something like that. But yeah, that's been some but I'll hopefully have more information about that soon. And other than that, I'll go ahead and wrap it up and, um, and thanks, everyone. Thanks. Alright, let's move on to all talk again. Okay. Bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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