Community Showcase: Anja Hartleb-Parson

Luis Malbas  
Hello, everybody, welcome to The Training, Learning and Development Community. Happy Thursday to you out there. Tt is Thursday. And it's been a crazy week. After that AIDC21 event, I have had a ton of work just kind of exploring new systems and, and other kind of technologies that I could add to, to the to TLDC sort of content stuff. Because I want to make things more accessible and more inclusive. So, that's kind of been my week. And I'm actually really, really glad to be able to take some time out to talk with Anja today, in this member showcase, and just learn more about Anja and, and so yeah, I know, we've got like, 30 minutes, I've got a bunch of questions for you. And I guess, are you ready? Yeah. All right. So um, you have like a really, really interesting background, you have a variety of degrees, you've done a lot of different things. I'm wondering when were in your career, were you first introduced to instructional design? When did that first happen for you?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
So I was already teaching back in graduate school. So and while I was teaching, I was actually also an assistant for, I think, what's called something like the instructional design center on campus or something like that. And so that was my first brush with instructional design in particular. And, but this is, some years ago, I won't say how many, but I'm back then he thinks we're kind of just starting to move on mine in higher education. And so that was kind of a whole new thing for faculty. And, you know, some some, we're pretty excited about it and wanting to adapt it, integrate it. And a lot of other faculty members were not excited.

Luis Malbas  
I mean, when you first got was it was it like, Oh, this is what is this thing? It's called instructional design? And what were you in? What were you teaching at that time?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
I was teaching political science and philosophy. And ain't to me, I always find technology exciting. That's just sort of a natural inclination for me, I guess. And I, but I didn't feel that I knew really a lot about it. I mean, ultimately, to me, creating my own lessons and actually taught a whole course at one point, how to make this thing that I was teaching called philosophy exciting, was kind of the main driver behind looking into instructional design.

Luis Malbas  
Wow. And then your love for data? When did that happen? Like when did you find that you had a passion for data analytics?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
I'm, what I'm trying to get a get my memory going. But I think when I was an undergraduate, I study both philosophy and psychology. And that was my first exposure to empirical like, empirical work, so to speak empirical science and in psychology, particularly, there is a lot a lot of gray area when it when it comes to measuring things. And so I became really curious, well, I mean, how do we collect data on these, these sort of qualitative phenomena that we're trying to measure? And I, you know, actually, not bad simple. And that got me get me into the more analytical into the more empirical and data side of things.

Luis Malbas  
I I feel like I've talked to other people that are really, really focused on on data analytics, and and do that regularly for their career. And it seems like every time I, every person that I've spoken to, it's almost like they started getting into it, and didn't even realize like how powerful analyzing your data aggregating it, and and being able to, to build solutions from the information that you gather from data, I didn't realize how, how powerful that could actually be. And, and so like, even now, what are you doing with with data and l&d? Is that is that something that you're actively have any projects going?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
So I'm surprisingly, what I'm doing in my current job, training wise, is not measured very well. And as a matter of fact, that was one of the reasons why our server, you know, trying to fit find more people on LinkedIn, who know about the data side of l&d, and, to my surprise, I found that it was not just a problem at my company. You know, even things like and I'm mostly in sales training. If we're training people to discover more referrals, is that actually effective? Is that is that helping? Um, you know, it when we think about data and training, you know, there's a lot of training going on, but even very tangible things like sales. Does it seem to really have a good grasp on how to measure results and training outcomes and tying them back to the bottom line? So and I'm not getting very far with it, unfortunately, which is, you know, one of the reasons why I'm trying to pivot into a different role. Yeah,

Luis Malbas  
yeah. I was a couple years ago, I would call like, when I went to, I went to big conference, I went to devlearn. And one of the things that I was kind of searching for was I wanted to find more people that were more vendors that were focused on data analytics, and thinking that, you know, nowadays, because data really is kind of central to any organization now or should be central. I thought that on the l&d side, maybe I could find somebody that that was also thinking along those lines, and really, like focused on on that concept, but I didn't find anybody. And so, yeah, I find that whenever I do come across somebody that is focused on data analytics, like in this space, they're kind of lone wolves. There's, like, ranging out there trying to really kind of create their own path. It's not like it's it's there. It's not something that that I'm finding a lot of information on, you know, generally in this. What looks like we lost you. Sorry about that on Yeah, I was like, I was messing around with my mouse and I accidentally clicked something. All right. Well, anyway, let me get to my next question. So Polly, sigh bio politics, organizational leadership, philosophy, psychology, you have these these degrees and all of these different things. Is there a particular discipline that you've found, like useful for your career so far in l&d?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Well, I've had all of them useful. I mean, you know, it might not seem that way. But ultimately, all of these, what sort of underlies all of them. It's questions about human nature. And, you know, when we train people, we're very much dealing with human nature, we're dealing with questions of motivation, and mechanisms of learning and incentives, and, you know, the, sort of how training and development fits into a person's work life and being at work. So, and then, of course, you have the whole corporate side to it, which, you know, when you study political science, you know, you're studying social behavior, essentially. And that I think has been extremely useful in my career to understand how, how to build relationships or how people interact when you know, they want to, they want something from each other. They want to accomplish something together, or when problems need to be solved, and they don't get solved. Or, you know, quite frankly, when there is resistance to change and reticence to new solutions being implemented. So that sort of deeply analytical side that I have just relishes those aspects. And, you know, I started with philosophy, and then kind of looked into the social aspects and the political science, but also on the organizational science side. So to me, everything makes sense. But I do realize that it's kind of it can be kind of strange for some people maybe,

Luis Malbas  
yeah, no, it seems like the group of of degrees that you have, are kind of there just seemed like a really potent combination of things. And, you know, it's rare for me to run into anybody that that has a background in philosophy, you know, and is working as a as an l&d professional, or even a background in political science. You know, honestly, like, what I've seen a lot of communications majors and English majors and, and, and majors, people that like, do performance. So it's really, really unique to, you know, to have you here, and to have you even part of this community. It's like, fascinating to talk to you about these different things. Even just your you know, your last broadcast that you did when you were talking about philosophy, and learning. That was, I took a lot away from that, especially, almost like a promo, historical perspective, it was really, really interesting to hear all that stuff from from you. And so like, now, what kind of projects are you working on right now?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Well, my big project is finding a job. A new job that is, and, you know, I kind of this timing hasn't been great, I will say, for the last nine months, but you know, at the same time, I just need to make a change, you know, so that I can I can evolve and grow as a person. That's my big project. But I you know, I do have a personal project, that personal projects that I've been trying to work on as well. So I finished my data. My data science certificate, the Graduate Certificate I was working on through USC D. Now UCSD, um, yeah. And I wanted to, and so I've done a lot of more deep, deep diving into analytical techniques, including data science, machine learning, etc. and another big thing for me has been to try to figure out after my autism diagnosis, what that means and what I am going to, like how that was going to affect me going forward and how I'm going to be moving forward in a professional but also personal context, but mostly professional. So you know, the accessibility conference last week. It's just it was kind of really weird for me, but it was also really important and a big relief for me to talk about the things that I just always thought I couldn't talk about.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, it was fascinating having you on that panel and just everything that you were able to, to communicate. I Oh, you know, I took away a lot from that. It's, it's really it was just really, really compelling all around. I mean, everybody had some incredible feedback. In fact, I thought, I feel like that panel could have been great as the open air opener of the day is I got so much just Hearing about just your honestly like what your stories were, and what you know, and and just your needs as, as a human being like in the workplace and as a learner. That was really, really, really, really incredible powerful stuff. So, you know, and I recommend, of course, everybody be able to take a look, listen to those recordings, I'll have that event resource page probably out today, I think I can get it out to dab and slowly putting it together. So what's your biggest challenge right now in finding a job?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
So I think part so one is, I think, anyway, my very diverse background, I think, in the corporate world, especially we live in a very cookie cutter world. And if, if you don't have exactly the type of experience and job title that recruiters are looking for, you typically don't get a call. So that's one thing. Data Analytics, in particular, it tends to be viewed as highly technical. And so, you know, as someone who's taught herself a lot of these things, and nobody asked me to, like, I had to do it at work or something like that. It's another challenge. So that sort of, it's almost like that experience doesn't count. And then the third thing, I think, for me, in particular, is, is probably my autism, because, um, I don't know. So when another thing you might not know about me is that I'm German, and you know, things kind of work a little bit differently in my culture, but Americans have always struck me as very sort of extroverted and enthusiastic, and, you know, very, you know, here, we've strike up a conversation with everything, and with everybody. And as an artistic person, that's extremely difficult. It's also very difficult for me in general to show, you know, emotion, for instance. And, you know, every interview advice article that I've read is, you know, you know, show interest, show enthusiasm, show passion and stuff like that. And I do those things in my own way, of course. But in the short, or, you know, when you have professional interviewers who are looking for very specific things, you know, they probably have a checklist and mentally or physically, I think I don't come across in the type of ways that they may expect or looking for. So I go through interviews, and then it's seen nothing happens after that, or just get the whatever. Thanks. But no, thanks, response. But I'm not. That's kind of where I started thinking about. Okay. Should I be talking about this more? Would this be a plus or a minus? And I really don't know. But at the end of the day, I, from my mental health, I think it is better to be the way that I am rather than trying to, and I think in my autism talk, I talked about this issue of masking and how extremely taxing that is on on autistic people having to mask who they are.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah. No, I it just seems like that'd be an incredible challenge. And do you I mean, do you think is it like in the past other industries that you've been in? Have you had kind of the same sort of challenges as far as finding work or has l&d been unique in that way?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
No, I've pretty much always had those challenges, but I think so. What ultimately would get me a job literally, if someone who spent some more time getting to know me so you know, some of the most successful jobs that I've had, I connected with People who, you know, would sit down with me for a coffee for two, three hours, and just, they were really interested based on my background and wanted to get to know me more. And they spent that extra time with me. And, I mean, it's probably not that different from, you know, the good old vitamin C, which is connections. Um, so, you know,

Luis Malbas  
yeah, it's, it's so interesting, because even on LinkedIn, you're very transparent. You know, a lot of the posts that you post on there are actually, you know, they're very vulnerable, like, very, you're very honest. And, and, and express yourself, really, I don't know, just clearly and to the point about what you're sort of your perspective on things and, and, and how to how to perceive autism. And, and I really, really appreciate that. I mean, it's one of the reasons why AI dc 21 exists is because, you know, I became more familiar with, with what you are going through, and I'm like, you know, what is? What can I do to be able to, to help people gather a better understanding of this type of thing. And so, and so that's one of the reasons why I really started looking into producing an event like that. So you were a big inspiration for me. And with that in mind, in your career, and just sort of what you're doing, is there anything specific that keeps you inspired?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Okay, so I, the way my mind works is, I have to be constantly challenged. And that typically means that I have to learn new things, and, or, you know, learn new things, learn new skills, improve those skills, etc, etc. And because I don't know if it is that I get bored easily, or if it is just that I just need to fill out that capacity thinking capacity. It's one feature of autism is that you get very, very focused sometimes to the point of obsession on on things, and you know, you have to fill that need. So, for me, I've always thrived in roles where I can explore an experiment and learn myself without much direction, or you know, someone looking over my shoulder. And these types of diverse roles. You might call them generalist roles. I like to call them Renaissance people roles. They're not you find them typically in more entrepreneurial environments, where people have to wear multiple hats. And I think that tends to be where I thrive the most.

Luis Malbas  
Wow, okay. I was, you know, I wasn't quite sure if that was that would be the case. Because Are you somebody that is it? Because Do you multitask? Or what do you find, with that type of that type of activity, say entrepreneurial, where you have to wear different hats?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
No, I don't? That's a really good question. I don't multitask. That's actually a sensory overload thing for me. What I do though, is I switch from one thing into the next completely, and I think I'm just really good at, you know, focusing on when I have one thing to focus on. And that's kind of the way I, I when I have a role where I need to do a bunch of different things like develop a fundraising strategy here and then do some program management over there. I literally silo those things. And when I'm in this zone, I'm in that zone, I know where else and when I'm this zone, then I'm in that zone, no, nowhere else. My brains kind of always worked that way. You know, so that that's kind of how I dealt with it. And I I'm generally not a big fan of multitasking. Anyway, I don't think that the human brain is really well made for multitasking at least and deeper levels. I mean, superficially, maybe But on deeper levels, the level of focus and deep work that we are able to do, we don't get done when we multitask.

Luis Malbas  
When you start working on a task, do you have to like do go for completion? Or is it something that like you can think leave things open ended and then move on to something else or become an issue for you at all.

Anja Hartleb Parson  
So I have been known to work on something for like 16 hours straight without taking a break. That's typically the way it works. Now, as I get older, I'm less able to do it. So I just kind of generate a point of, you know, I'm just too tired. I can't go anymore. And that's when I stop. But I I typically try to get as much done as possible, when, you know, when I'm in the zone, so to speak. And if I don't have to stop, then I won't stop.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah. Now. So what do you think on you, if you weren't currently like working to be in or wanting to be an l&d professional? What do you think you'd be?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Well, I will probably, I will probably be a professor. But you know, I would my stint in higher education. You know, I saw a lot of problems with, particularly with the way things were being taught, and how a lot of times in many areas Safe, safe. For the sciences, maybe higher education tends to be behind what the workplace needs, unfortunately. So I would try to do, I would try to teach things where I could innovate pretty quickly and do my own thing. Which is hard to find in higher education, which is why I'm not in higher education. But that's probably what I would do. Maybe I would be like Aristotle, you know, who just built his own Academy, and you just charge people for sitting around and learning from him.

Luis Malbas  
About your challenges, like just teaching people as as like in a social environment face to face, with with with other other people? Does does your autism affect that? Or does it challenge you?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Yeah, it does. I mean, the online teaching world has been learning world has been a godsend for me in that respect. And that really helps. But I do actually do remarkably well, all things considered when I'm in front of people say whether I give a presentation, or I'm teaching something. And that's primarily because I just go into a zone, get out, and then that's where I am. I'm a little bit. You know, it's, it's, it wouldn't say necessarily, it's a masking thing. It's just kind of jumping into a role and then doing that. And you know, when I was teaching on campus, that's pretty much how I dealt with that, and the desire to teach and help people learn what's just stronger than the sensory issues. And yeah,

Luis Malbas  
how about speaking at conferences? Is that something you would be interested in doing?

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Yeah, I mean, I have done that. And I do. I do enjoy that quite a bit. It's always a matter for me of coming up with something that I really want to talk about. I know there are some people who are just professional speakers, you know, they just go everywhere and speak. I'm not sure that I could do that. Because I don't want to talk about the same thing. Every time I'm talking. And so I would have to come up with new things all the time. And that kind of sounds exhausting to me.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to wrap it up with one last question on you. If there's one thing that people should know about you, what is it? Oh, goodness. Um,

Anja Hartleb Parson  
I think the biggest thing is probably that I am approachable. It's just that you want to Give me some time. And you know, you don't, you don't need to be scared that you're going to hurt me or make me feel uncomfortable. I think that's probably the thing that might not be immediately obvious, at least from feedback that I've gotten from other people. Because I hear this all the time. You seem so cold, you seem arrogant, you seem X, Y, and Z. And I'm really not like that at all. But I do realize that first impressions are first impressions.

Luis Malbas  
Very nice. Okay, that's great. Anja, it has been a pleasure talking to you for the last half hour. And it is also, I think that you are a wonderful addition to TLC to the community, you've already done so much to help support our program, and you bring really fascinating and interesting ideas to our broadcasts on a regular basis. If whenever you have anything else, feel free to reach out, I just love having you as part of TL DC. And, and, and so thank you so much for being a member.

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Yeah, no problem. Thank you for having me. And feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, absolutely. Um, wait, actually, let me post your LinkedIn profile and chat for the folks that are in. And I don't know, I was thinking about doing something a smaller event, maybe that's specific to neurodiversity. Judy, cats had mentioned something about that as well. So maybe that's something we can collaborate on? Oh, yeah. I

Anja Hartleb Parson  
think that would be a really good idea. It's it's a particularly challenging aspect for learning. So I would love to bring some people together have some good insights on how to help l&d with that.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm like a mini conference, maybe? Cuz I just don't know exactly where to start with it, you know, and so maybe we could we could talk about it. Yeah. Okay, cool. All right on your thank you so much for your time today. And I'm sure we'll see you again soon.

Anja Hartleb Parson  
Yeah, bye. See ya.

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