Transitioning or Transitioned: Navigating the In-between with Joelle Edouard

Luis Malbas  
Welcome back, everybody. Thanks again for joining our transitioning to learning and development conference. And we have our second session of the day and actually the final session of the day. You know, to be totally honest with you, I was trying to fill another session later today, but then my son has soccer practice and just wanted to be able to go to soccer practice because he's not going to have any games this weekend. So it's it's a holiday weekend. So we're just going with two sessions today. But lots of virtual table discussions are happening I saw earlier it look really, really crowded out there. And after we wrap up with Joelle here, there is one with Kaylene in feedback workshop that she has, and then also, Rick is coming back. Rick Jacobs from yesterday is coming back to talk about applying graphic design to training, which incidentally, probably next or this month, maybe towards the end of the month, I am going to try to put together a graphic design for instructional design event. So hopefully we'll see a lot of you at that one. All right, so we have Joelle Edwar here for transitioning or transitioned navigating the in between and sort of a little backstory on this one, we had a private Slack channel going where we were talking about and organizing this event is gonna see if you look at the the producers for this eventual well was one of them. And, and she wanted to do this one, which I think is a fantastic topic really can apply to a lot of those of you out there that are transitioning into l&d and are kind of in between things. And just a little bit of info about Joelle dwells a former teacher who's teaching career serve students ranging from ages 12 to 85 and span two continents, to about what continents were those

Joelle Edouard  
North America and Africa.

Luis Malbas  
There you go, awesome. Job now designs develops and facilitates professional development experiences for teachers and runs her own freelance editing business. Joelle, thanks so much for doing this one more question. Why was it important for you to do this one?

Joelle Edouard  
Um, because, you know, I took a while to figure out if I was even transitioned or not. Fun fact, I think more or less figured it out when you said hey, do you want to do this session? With me? Oh, wait, yes, yes, I can do that. So I figured there would be a lot of people who are probably in similar situations or navigating the other gray areas of transitioning.

Luis Malbas  
Love it. Okay. All right, I'm gonna go ahead and hide myself from the stage and let you take over. Thanks again for doing this one.

Joelle Edouard  
Thanks for having me. All right. Hello, everyone. I will actually start with a visual disruption, which is something I originally notice and one of the like i times presentations that she explained was a way to be more inclusive of people with vision impairments. And so I am a dark skinned black woman. With currently within earrings shaped like the continent of Africa. My hair is pulled up into an afro puff, and it is mostly black stuff. With many strains of weight. I am wearing black rimmed glasses with clear bottoms, and purple lipstick, because purple is my color. Well, I see Morgan also as a fan of the purple. So that's my visual description and the background, our bookshelves a corner bookshelf and some mementos from my teaching years, both here and abroad. With that, I would like to know a little bit about who you are watching. And so I just made a quick poll and hopefully it will show up okay, and I feel just kinda let me know where you're at right now. Are you currently a teacher Are you from a non teaching profession but looking into going into getting into lnd? already working in l&d or living in that in between

wait a few more seconds about that looks like The Inbetweeners are dominating. So now I'm really glad that I'm doing this topic. Because it seems like many are in that situation. All right. Let me close the poll and share my presentation with you.

And I'm sure no one will be surprised to see that it is purple. Okay, so, um, this is navigating the in between, I'm sure eyelid lar, currently professional learning developer, and freelance editor. And I'll start with where I started. This if we're going to talk about the in betweens. We need the start and the end and then we go into the in betweens. So, growing up everyone, but main knew I was going to be a teacher. I was the kid that was forever teaching something to a friend or classmate. My nickname one of my nicknames was Nico, which is French is short and French for dictionary. Every time we took an aptitude test, my results look like someone copied the Thesaurus entry for teacher. But I was like, Nope, definitely not. That's not for me. I should add that where I grew up in Switzerland, teachers are actually very highly respected. So when I said that wasn't for me, it wasn't a matter of I thought it was beneath me. But honestly, as a kid, I was not that fond of kids, even though it was one. So I thought, oh, no, teaching sounds like a terrible choice not doing it. I really didn't start considering teaching. And so I was about halfway through undergrad. In fact, as a kid, at one point, I wanted to be a mafia boss and the Italian Mafia. And so my parents informed me that that would actually require being a criminal. The reason I wanted to be a mafia boss is because I heard the soundtrack to The Godfather movie. And I mean, I'm dating myself, I guess. But at that time, for your average, elementary to middle school kid, that song was it and I was like, I'm gonna be an Italian mafia boss. And then my dad said, okay, so you're gonna be a criminal. So then change my mind, I decided I was going to be an architectural engineer, because I like looking at the parts behind everything that how of everything is put together. And so I entered a very intense math and science program where I did fine. But I realized, wow, if I have to do this much math for the rest of my life, I'm probably going to have to gouge my eyes out with a spoon. So after that, I really didn't worry about it too much. Continuing my schooling moved to the US, actually in 10th grade. So another fun fact, even though I taught middle school the most that of anything. During my teaching years, I've never actually attended any kind of us middle school. So I don't, I don't actually know what it's like to be a middle schooler here. But anyway, as things worked out, I went to college double majored in French and English at Rutgers University. And the reason I did major in education is basically originally I was interested in translation.

And a module someone speaks French there. And also, the other reason I didn't Nature in education is that the education scheduling? Pretty much that precluded double majoring, which was something I really wanted to do. So I did the alternate route when I moved to Florida. And that's how I became a teacher. For all my fighting, becoming a teacher actually had a really successful teaching career. I taught sixth grade, oh gosh, no sixth grade, I can't do sixth grade. And the oh gosh, seventh graders, my lower age cut off. But I did seventh grade ELA for six years, either pure Middle School. And after that went on to a grade six through 12 Magnet School for the Arts. There are all sorts of combinations of middle school ELA, high school, ela, French creative writing, at one point, I had five different craps. And I didn't know which language I was teaching in. But it worked out fine. And eventually, I moved and spent three years teaching in Ivory Coast, in West Africa. And they're taught mostly English, Middle High School, and I be as I was a teacher in Florida, and for those of you who know, that definitely requires having a second job. During four of my last teaching years of the US, I also had a side gig at my local Allianz forces, where I taught small group and private classes. And my oldest student, there was 85, and was probably one of my best students. So I've definitely had some experience with a wide variety of age groups. So moving on to where I am now. I'm a professional learning developer. I'm a freelance editor. And I'm also somehow always a job seeker. Because I still really, I'm looking for full time work and lnd is just sometimes you know, the way you figure things out, and the way they work out is not quite the same. And so I thought this particular picture here was funny because the enter key says fine job instead. And some mornings. That's just how I feel as I wake up and start going through my list of applications to do I feel like all I'm doing is finding a job. So anyway, this is me now, the pictures from a recent professional development workshop I did. With my one of my current employers, we've been working on supporting a school district that is revising their curriculum for anti bias and anti marginalization and really focusing on being inclusive of their students backgrounds and perspectives. So most recently, I co facilitated a curriculum to nap over two days with a colleague. And that sweat that smile, that smiling pictures for from Sorry, that was a super fun workshop. But really, even though I haven't been in a K 12 classroom for over a year, I, as I mentioned earlier, didn't quite realize that transitions. And so I suggested a session on this, and Louise mentioned me doing it and I said, um, but don't people want to hear from people who actually transition. And several people in the producing committee, including Bella and Kayleen, and Tara and Devin and several more relax. So yeah, that's why you should do it. And so that really gave me a different perspective. And then I thought, hmm, maybe some people would benefit from hearing from me. So anyway, you didn't come here to hear my life story came to hear

about the in betweens. So I'll kind of tell you a little bit about how that happen. So I mentioned that I was I'm working in Ivory Coast in West Africa after I left the US. And there came a point where I decided, you know, if I want to continue to grow, I need to move on to bigger international school where I can have more challenges, more opportunities to take on more responsibilities, I really wanted to get into instructional coaching, because one of my favorite things while teaching has always been mentoring new teachers and helping them acclimate to the school and be successful. So I started applying it to some targeted schools, I also wanted a school that had a very good support department, because I have a very intense and complex child in many ways. So I needed the school to work for him as well. So that meant I applied to a very small number of schools, which is always risky. So fast forward to a lot late in the hiring season for international schools, I get to the point where I have interviews with two top tier international schools, and I'm talking the kind of school where if you work there for even two years, after that, you have your pick, you have your pick of schools, everyone will hire you if you have one of those schools on your resume. So not only did that have interviews with both, they were actually going back and forth, you know, fighting over me, which is not something I was used to having taught in Florida public schools. But anyway, so I was feeling just on top of the world, like, no, they were midnight calls, because they wanted to be first to move on to the next round of interviews. And so Oh, y'all know this random dancer references because aside from purple, I'm also really into dance and dance things. So by the end of that whole hiring cycle, I was feeling pop of the world, like I was standing there in a Firebird costume receiving a standing ovation. And so things didn't quite land as gracefully, as expected. Because that's usually how it goes, right. In fact, my landing looked more like less Firebird more crashing. I think that's a pigeon. I don't know, at least I felt like a crashing pigeon. Um, basically, as things went, I had to pull my son out of school and homeschool for a little while. Then the school that had hired me, suddenly decided to rescind the offer, which would have not been that a big deal. It's not that big a deal, except they did that two months after the offer, which is well after the hiring season has ended for international schools. So I was heartbroken between, you know, the school thing where I felt my son was not made to feel like he belonged. And then this holder backhoe I was heartbroken. I said, you know, teaching and I need a break. That's it. I'm done. I don't want anything to do with education for at least a year. And I take a break, see if I can live without that session. And normally, I'm the kind of person who's known for not only having a five year plan, but I usually have a five year plan that looks like a branching scenario. So like there's the five year plan A, but then there's Plan B and C and each one has a contingency plan. But as it worked out, and then of my plan, covered what happened. So I was like, Alright, I'm gonna do things differently. Take a break. So that's when I got into all the pivoting. And so pivot turn, pivot turn. And if you're a dancer know as you turn in, you turn on your turn, you start getting concerned about getting dizzy. So my first pivot was actually courtesy of the very first teacher I mentored What 30 years ago when she was a brand new teacher. And I told her, You know what? I'm done with education. I hate everything. I, this is a, I'm just not doing anything having to do with that I'm never teaching again, I quit. And she said, Wait, no, you can't do that. By the way. Did you know there's this class, I usually teach that I can't teach this summer, you should totally do that. When you come back, you know, maybe it will rekindle your love for education. So I was like, Okay, fine. Do it. Also, you know, money is nice, because I enjoy food and shelter quite a bit. And so I figured, you know what, I'll teach that summer session. And at least you'll give me some cash and a little buffer. So I have time to regroup, think, decide why even want to do next, and move on. So I did that. And then I say, Yeah, I don't know about this college teaching, you know, me, and I enjoyed getting to, again, support teachers. But it's still very teachery. I don't know about that. So same friend actually has a lovely consulting firm that is focused on equity in education. And she said, Wow, I see you haven't quite found what you want to do. Yeah, I know, you said you want to purely do LNG, and you want nothing to do with education. But we have two schools that

we support that we don't have anyone for, can you do me a favor and do it? And so I want to pause here and say, you know, she said, do her a favor. But obviously, I was struggling finding direction, and she was doing me a favor. So as you transition one thing is, you know, listen to the people who have your best interests at heart, because sometimes they'll see things in you and capacities in you that you don't see. So I started doing that, which I also enjoyed, and I thought of it as Okay, well. So now I'm an educational consultant. And because of the way Educational Consultants had been brought into my district, when I was teaching in Florida, I thought of a kind of great. I'm an educational consultant, nobody's going to want to see me, and I'm probably being brought in to deal with teachers who would rather be doing anything but listening to me. As it turns out, the district she was working with was super supportive. And all the teachers involved were teachers who believe in equitable education and really wanted to be there. And so the experience was actually pleasing. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot about, you know, planning for groups, even though they are teachers, but they're not my personal colleagues. So I found that took a different level of planning than it did when I did PD at school, for example. I also learned a lot more about working on curriculum, that's not my curriculum. That's not curriculum for me. So I had to help design curriculum for teachers who teach braids and subjects that I've never taught. So that was another thing. And then I realized as my tax accountant, because if you teach internationally and then come back, you definitely don't want to do your own taxes that first year. So my tax accountant said, you know, what are you doing now? I need that for my files. And so I pulled my contract and I saw Oh, wait, it doesn't say educational consultant. It actually says professional learning developer. So I would say proud of me, not finding myself in a transition was sometimes being so stuck on. I want something that says lnd and has that umbrella and has that specific type of title that I totally missed that was moving in that direction. Which is ironic because as part of this particular job, I had to actually had to design instant virtual instructor led materials, guides and slide backs for a summer program about coding. Now, I know zero about coding. So that was an excellent experience and learning how to work with me's in subjects in which I have no expertise. So there's that. So then because again, like I said, I like food and shelter, I was like, well, in, I still don't have a full time job, and money doesn't seem to just magically appear here. So maybe I should actually start getting paid for all the editing I do. Which started because I did some editing for someone as a favor, and they said, Oh, do you take unpaid gigs? Referred someone, I did that, and then I ended up doing more of them. And I've tried to be strategic about looking for clients that allow me some more insight into l&d or into instructional design. So for example, right now, I'm heavily working on editing some bilingual content in a foreign elearning developer. But that allows me to see what their scripts look like how elearning scripts are organized, I have a lot of interaction with a globally distributed team. So there's that. And then I also, during the pandemic started volunteering with this

Facebook online community that's about bringing acceptance and diversity to the dance world. And I found this to be a place where as the group kind of grew very quickly from when I started helping out, we had maybe 80,000 members. And then two months later, we had 100,000. And here we are about a year and a half later from that point. And we're at 370,000 members. So originally, this group was run by the founder and his wife. The group is called Nancy accepts everyone for those of you who are dance people. And so it was run by this man and his wife, and then they ran into this problem of we can't do this with just the two of us. That's it, I can't help. So then we got a small team of moderators, and things weren't quite getting done well. And so I thought, hey, there's a problem I can solve. I'm gonna see if they would like some training, because based on my analysis, the reason things aren't being done in the way that the founder wants them to be them is really, because half of these people have no idea what he's asking. And so having determined that problem, I took some surveys, did some interviews, and then I started creating some small trainings. For them. Actually, some of my portfolio items are from that. Most of them, I'm revising now that I have somewhat better skills, which by the way, as many of you have heard at the tables, and in the several presentations, that is something to keep in mind. Your your portfolio should be ever evolving. So it should showcase your skills as they grow. Just like for your students who have portfolios. It's not a standstill, you expect it to show the growth that they've had. So those are all the different roles that can appeared, and my various pivots. And so to keep with this dance idea, dancers when they're turning and turning and turning, are told to spot and spotting is how you don't get dizzy. And what that means is even as you're turning you keep your eye on the place where you're going. And so as you face back, the last thing you see should be that spot. And as you're coming back around, the first thing you see should be that spot again. And so I think that applies to messy transitions as well, because there were definitely times in all this where I had my pity party and my self talk that sounded maybe in ways that I would not allow myself to do Talk to other people. But I was certainly talking to myself in that way, you know, putting myself down, you'll never manage this, what are you doing? Your child is gonna starve to death because you're never gonna find a job. What is wrong with you? I had all those moments. But I found that if I kept my eye on the spot on that ultimate goal, then I was able to take the pieces of all those other things, and start to pull what I could use to move forward and to move in the direction that I want it to move. Yeah. Okay, so that was just about me. So how about the stuff that's useful for you? Here are the things that I learned during my transition, and I would love to hear now as I go through this, I'd love to hear as you see these lessons and these ideas, which ones can use specifically applied to your current situation? So number one for me was to figure out my milestones, but remain flexible. What do I mean by that? First of all, when I started researching potential jobs, of course, like everybody else I saw, I mean, I knew lnd was kind of the direction I wanted to go. But then we then that I kept seeing, for me, actually, instructional design, and UX research.

So I thought, okay, maybe I could do one of those. tried some through some volunteering to do some UX research. And FF Mm hmm. I like parts of that, but probably not the whole process. And then Id, you know, is everywhere. Everybody wants to be an instructional instructional designer. It's like everyone wants to be the Prima Ballerina. It seems in l&d, all you hear about is instructional design. And so like many I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna do that. And so when I didn't quite get to that. I felt like I failed. And then I realized, actually, do I really, really want to do that, which is where volunteering, circling back to that comes into play, I've had the opportunity to do some volunteering with the group of teaching a path to learning and development that's run by Sarah stebic who is presenting yesterday, if you didn't see her presentation, definitely rewatch that. Or watch that and watch the replay, I should say. But that's I'm doing that Oracle. So I realize, well, there's work there that I enjoy, but maybe not all of it. Like, you know, I really like the analysis, I really like the looking at the problem and planning a solution. I really enjoyed project planning and the various iterations of that storyboarding and the iterations of that. And between that, and my volunteering with dance accepts everyone. I've also created some no training videos. For them, those mostly for dance accepts everyone, I'm working on some elearning as well. But ultimately, I find that that part of it, I'm like, I can take it or leave it. So while I'm still looking for full time work within lnd, there are now very few jobs listed as instructional designer that actually apply for because I'm realizing that unless that company's instructional design plays to those strengths, that's not necessarily what I want to do. So that's one lesson I learned. have milestones have those goals, but don't be afraid to tweak them and change them. That's part of growth. Um, titles are not the most important thing. So that goes back to the instructional designer thing. I've seen some instructional designer job descriptions, where I said, Yes, I'm applying to that. Look at all these things they talked about. They want a strong writer, they're looking for someone who can really create content that would be appropriate for different audiences. I can do that. Oh, collaborate with me that will be like 50% of that. Yes. Give me more of those. And then I see some that have the exact same title and every line on theirs. So you should be able to storyline and storyline while storyline thing and preferably storyline. I'm like, Yeah, that's gonna be a past for me. So don't get hung up on the titles. In fact, I'm currently waiting to hear back on two second round interviews I had a couple of days ago. So waiting to hear if I move to the final round. And both of them are actually under that company's lnd, which they call it education training. Neither of them say instructional design. But both of them have parts of the process or elements that you would find, for example, and the ADDIE framework. So titles

are not the most important thing. Next have a self care plan. Oh, my goodness, I so wish that I had seen Mike Benny's presentation that he did on Monday here. Like a year ago, that would have made such a difference for me, because I, you know, like I laugh and joke about it, but honestly, they are there were some rough times there were definitely a couple times. So I took some editing jobs that I was not excited about at all that were super tedious, not in my not really in my preferred wheelhouse simply because I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to make money right now. Because I'm, you know, my bank balance is frowning at me. And so I feel that being intentional about learning how to cope with uncertainty is another super important fact. In fact, I saved an article that resonated with me that I'll drop in the chat that has some tips about dealing with uncertainty. And for me, I think one of the most important point they made was, one of the tips they give is don't believe everything you think. And that really resonated with me, because, as I mentioned, sometimes mentally I talk to myself in ways that I would not find acceptable to talk to anybody else. And I find that it's easy to get into that hole when you're dealing with uncertainty because you feel like you don't have control. So I dropped the article in the chair. I hope that will be useful for you as well. Here, Next, find community and engage, know this it's a two parter. It's not just find community. For me, you know, I joined LinkedIn and I thought, Oh, look at all these fancy, accomplished people. And why am I here and maybe I should crawl back into my room. And then first I joined CPLD which scalene was kind enough to drop the link for that's teaching a path to learning and development, which was such an is such an excellent supportive community. Everything in there was positive, I swear, sometimes I will see the same questions. I know I asked a year ago being asked in the group and this is not the kind of place where you'll find people say did you like run a search? Don't you already know this? No matter how many times the questions get asked, there's always someone there willing to help. Now while they're thing the very first person to engage with me was Heidi Kirby, who presented earlier today and is awesome. Definitely rewatch her presentation as well. And she was presenting at a previous event that that TDLC this community was putting on a also about getting into l&d and transitioning. And so I watched that the replay for all of those sessions is also available, I highly suggest that you check those out. And in I've been in this community ever since. But I find that it only works if if you engage. So for example, I've been in the Slack channel, as Luis mentioned, and I did for a little bit, get a little impostor syndrome, like, I don't know that I want to participate. If you have issues with that, rewatch Devon's presentation from yesterday. And everybody, again, was so welcoming. And so when Louis said, you know, I'm putting this event together, does anyone want to help, I thought, probably not me. And so you know, what, I'm gonna help. And then next thing, you know, well, here I am. So the engagement is important, because this is really

where you learn the most, in my opinion. But that's also how you get something out of the community without being a user. And I always feel nervous about asking people for help reaching out because I'm afraid to be that I'm using and taking and taking and taking. But I find that if you engage in a way that's authentic, then it's really a given take. This one, that's just me being honest, get creative about money. I've taken things under editing that really weren't editing, I've done some very random writing gigs. I have, I don't know how many Kickstarter pages I've rewritten for people. You know, all these, I did some test scoring, I think for a testing company. And I also learn to barter, for example. You know, I cut, of course, a lot of expenses when I started transitioning. But I, you know, I need to dance. And I have my one dance class I've been taking most consistently for, I don't know, four years or so four or five years or so. And I got to the point where I thought, you know, if I want to continue searching and be in this transition with the most flexibility, I don't know that I can afford it. So I told the teacher who's also a friend, and she said, Well, don't you say you're, like doing curriculum and training stuff and all of them. So yeah, it's like, well, I've been meaning for someone to make me like a guide of how I can plan and organize my dance curriculum. You know, so that I'm not just trying to catch the pieces at the end of each session. Can you do? Do you know how to do that? I said, I should do. So. Okay, well, how much do people usually charge for that? So I gave her what I thought was a reasonable rate. And she said, well, then perfect. So tell me how many hours you think this project will take you. And then we'll basically just martyr so get creative. His I mean, maybe that's not a worry for all but I find that if you don't, if you find ways to make the money you need, even if it's the bare minimum, mind you, then you have more flexibility in choosing what you want to do next. Like for me, I knew that if I went back to Florida, k 12 classroom, I there is no way that I would be able to be as intentional with what I want. As I get to be now then I'm flexible because I can kind of manage how many clients I take at a time. I also explore unexpected places. For example, as I said, when I joined the dance accepts everyone group and agreed to become a moderator. Honestly, I wish just as this guy, I felt, you know, the group was valuable to me and he said, Oh my gosh, we have like hundreds of 1000s of members now and we can't manage I thought Oh sure. I'll help. And as it turns out, now, there's definitely been occasions where something outside of the phones Hearing scope pops up. And so I'll be asked to run or design something for the group and, you know, get paid for that separately. And so just keep your eyes open, because for me, I felt like I was missing, seeing opportunities to build the skills that fit under lnd. And I do think that's valuable, because in that recent interview, I mentioned, no matter how it ends up turning out, one of the things the interviewer said, and that second round was, you know, I really appreciate how you have this very background and knowledge base, because that lets us know that you would be flexible and able to adjust to our different projects. Now. And sometimes you hear well, if you're not laser focus, nobody will trust you. And it was good to hear that other perspective. And lastly, get the most out of where you are right now. And that's what I do know, when I'm doing my editing for the elearning provider. I sure do take notes on and I shared last question. So I have no this, you know, for all your scripts, that you use this, this and that, why is that. And now that's something I more that I know about writing elearning scripts, or I've asked this means that I edit for for feedback on the way I give them feedback. So that's something I can use. And that's an example I can then present in, you know, in an interview, for example, or heck if learn how to use Smartsheet. Now, so that's one more skill. But if all I was focused on was, well, I don't have a job, a full time job where the title of something something in DLN department, therefore I fail, I would be missing all those little things. Likewise, with the dance accepts everyone group as we near 400,000 members, and we have other things happening, I get to say, Hey, do you think we could use a training on this? Or can I create a video for this subgroup of members that wants to know, blank, or simply I get to manage some people that are new to the team. So these are all things I can take with me to whatever is next. So of course, you know, I'm still going to be nervous as I wait to hear if I get to that final round of interview for either or both of those two jobs I just interviewed for. And of course, after I leave here, I'm probably gonna pop at tables and then go do more applications. Because you know, don't stop applying just because you had the first second or even final round of interview. But I'm making sure to get the most out of where I am right now. Which is, I guess sort of the in between. and I have talked a lot. And so hopefully, you found it useful. I very much appreciate you coming in today. You can find me on LinkedIn pretty easily, when there's not a huge number of jellybeans apparently, out there. I hope you found this useful. Please, if you have any questions, now would be a great time. Or I definitely invite you if you found any of the lessons useful or that they resonated with you. Definitely let us know what you're planning to do with them. Let us know which ones you think you can apply right now. And for free. Again, as I said to reach out on LinkedIn, whether it's today or in a week or months from now, if any of those lessons are useful to you. Please let me know. Hey, Joanna, just want to let you know I did blank and it's worked out for me. And so I hope that you get to enjoy the time and D in between. And that's it. Thanks so much for having me.

Luis Malbas  
It's been great. You gave it you just gave us so much to think about And, you know, here's the thing that I just I just realized, and if anybody has any questions, please feel free to post them in chat and, or in the QA area. But to be honest, TL DC was kind of a transition thing for me. Like when I first started it, I had left another job and l&d. And then I'm like, Okay, I still want to stay in touch with the people that I've met in this, you know, in, in this space, and I want to continue doing certain things and just, you know, exploring whatever. How can I do that? I know, I'll just build something. And you know, that way I can stay in touch with everybody and all that. And but now, it's, you know, it's been on five years now, still transitioning. But it's, it's established itself. And so, yeah, I mean, for anybody else out there. That's something to consider, you know, you just, you just you if you can't figure out something, just build it. And

Joelle Edouard  
you're lucky that you did.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. Yeah. Ya know, and oh, another thing my camera is not working. So that's why I don't have my video on. Sorry. It's been I actually ordered a new camera last night because this is the problem. But I do appreciate you giving us all of this to think about Joelle. Really, really wonderful.

Joelle Edouard  
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Luis Malbas  
Sure. All right. I am not seeing any questions come up. Just lots of great session and all of the things everyone compliments. It's been wonderful. All right, everybody. I'm gonna go ahead and close the session out. Don't forget we've got let's see, we've got virtual tables going. Let's see. Sorry.

Joelle Edouard  
Awesome sessions tomorrow. Tomorrow.

Luis Malbas  
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, tomorrow is actually tomorrow could be an event all on of its own. Because we've got four sessions. You've got this incredible networking one with baileigh. That starts out the day, the panel inside the mind of a hiring manager with Tom McDowell and Kara is going to be back for that Heidi Kirby and gamma i can't remember last name, another hiring manager from the UK, I believe, that Tom is going to have on and then more virtual table tables, and then we're talking with Ashley, Tucson or kisana about building your elearning portfolio. You definitely want to stick around for that. And then more virtual tables and then we're ending the day with Laney talking about the language of ID. And so this one's more of one focus for especially teachers like moving into instructional design and the corporate world and getting some of that terminology down. So yeah, with that, see you on the tables. See you tomorrow. Thanks again. Joelle.

Joelle Edouard  
Thank you. See ya.

Luis Malbas  
I'll see you later. Bye bye. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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